New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

tankphobia said:

Yeah, for an Australian perspective, long distance driving is a pretty common affair and hybrids cut the fuel cost almost in half, the payback period for a hybrid vs ICE is only like 3 years but I guess it really depends on driving habits. I've seen that they are amazing for city driving since idling consumes a huge amount of fuel.

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I don't understand why Hybrid will cut the fuel bill by half for long distance driving (ie. highway driving)

Hybrid advantage over ICE is primarily in stop-start driving conditions, eg City driving.
In continuous cruising conditions, eg. highways, it has very little advantage over ICE and depending on driving style, may actually be worse.

Note the spec sheet for the Prius actually shows lower range per full tank for highway driving than city driving ... due probably to less opportunity for regenerative energy recovery.

alright, CATL and EVE battery will be supplying BMW with all their battery needs from 2025. So despite the extremely anti-China stances of the current German gov't, all their biggest employers are choosing Chinese supply chain. Both CATL and EVE will have large battery factories in both China and Europe for BMW. Given how much capacity is decided for BMW, I wouldn't be surprised if CATL and EVE's battery production in Europe end up in BMW's American car production also.

This article discusses the progress BYD has made in the US commercial EV market despite all the geopolitical challenges.

Already posted on semiconductor thread, but also related here. I think the production is 500k wafers a year, not 500k chips. 500k chips will be a very small factory.
for example, this one from earlier this year said they are building a plant in Shandong with 360k wafers a year
Anyhow, they need all the capacities they can to satisfy the demand of their production increase. They have been buying from other domestic players recently.

As for BYD's ESS system. it's inevitable for them to move to blade battery with their next generation ESS cubes. That should lower complexity and production cost of blade batteries. Btw, their T28 cubes are being sold everywhere in the world.

We also have the other news that SVOLT is building a factory in Germany next to Tesla's gigafactory. I can only assume that SVOLT is supplying somebody. I'm not sure who exactly. I guess we will get some news on this coming up, but they must have received some firm orders.

tphuang said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568137971043569664

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568162502390710275

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alright, CATL and EVE battery will be supplying BMW with all their battery needs from 2025. So despite the extremely anti-China stances of the current German gov't, all their biggest employers are choosing Chinese supply chain. Both CATL and EVE will have large battery factories in both China and Europe for BMW. Given how much capacity is decided for BMW, I wouldn't be surprised if CATL and EVE's battery production in Europe end up in BMW's American car production also.

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Total of 40 Gwh, or around 500k cars a year if an average car uses 80kwh
That's a decent commitment and goes completely against the decoupling rhetoric

Xiaomi to reportedly adopt Hesai LiDAR for first autonomous EV​

Digitimes staff, Taipei; Adam Hwang, DIGITIMES AsiaThursday 8 September 2022

China-based smartphone vendor Xiaomi has stepped into developing autonomous electric vehicles (EVs), and will reportedly adopt LiDARs developed by China-based Hesai Technology for its first autonomous EV, according to industry sources.
Xiaomi has so far invested CNY3.3 billion (US$478 million) in developing autonomous driving technology through setting up an R&D team of about 500 members, acquiring related startups, and investing in related enterprises, the sources said.
Xiaomi's first autonomous EV will be equipped with AT128, Hesai-developed auto-grade hybrid solid-state LiDAR, as the major radar and several all solid-state radars as gap-filler radars, specifically used in blind spots, the sources noted.
Xiaomi in November 2021 participated in Hesai's series D funding, probably because of Hesai's LiDAR technology, the sources indicated.
Unveiled in August 2021, AT128 features a detecting range of about 20m, an overall resolution of 1,200x128, a field of view of 120 degrees x 25.4 degrees and can reach 1.536 million data points per second.
AT128 has been adopted by several China-based automakers or brands including Li Auto, Pixel-J, HiPhi, and Lotus China. In particular, Li Auto began to deliver L9, its first electric SUV equipped with AT128, at the end of August 2022, with company chairman and CEO Li Xiang indicating that AT128 has the best overall performance among all available car-use LiDAR models.
Hesai's LiDAR has been adopted by many developers of Level 4 autonomous drive, including US-based Cruise, Zoox, Nuro and TuSimple as well as China-based Apollo under Baidu, WeRide, AutoX, Pony AI and Meituan. In road tests administered by the Department of Motor Vehicles, California State Government, in 2021, 12 of the top 15 developers of autonomous driving have adopted Hesai-developed main LiDAR solutions.
According to France-based Yole Intelligence, there will be more than 200,000 LiDARs installed or to be installed in cars globally and Hesai will account for 20% of them. Besides, Japan-based Fuji Chimera Research Institute estimates the global car-use LiDAR market value in 2022 at US$92 million and forecasts the value in 2030 at US$6.8 billion.
In addition to Hesai, China-based Orbbec is developing single-photon avalanche diode array-based solid-state LiDARs for use in autonomous driving, while Livox Technology, a subsidiary of China-based drone maker Da-Jiang Innovations Science and Technology, has offered Horizon and Tele-15 LiDARs which can support Levels 3 and 4 autonomous driving. Besides, China-based RoboSense has launched M1 and other solid-state LiDAR models.
Among China-based EV vendors or brands, XPeng Motors has adopted LiDARs for P5 model, NIO has done so for ET7 and SUV ES7, GAC Aion New Energy Automobile for Aion LX PLus, Zhiji Motor Technology for L7, Beijing Langu Jihu Automobile Technology for Arcfox Alpha S the HI, Li Auto for L9.

An EV equipped with LiDARs for testing autonomous driving; Credit:

Recently saw some videos of Chinese reviewers testing basically all the different Chinese HEV and PHEV SUVs in terms of fuel consumption. I'll add the link if I can find it

Brief summary:
Geely Leishen Hi-P (tested model was Xingyue L HEV, not PHEV) was the best by far. Around 6l/100km on highways

BYD's DMi on Song Plus/Tang and GWM's DHT on Latte/Mocha are a close second, around 6.8 and 7.5 respectively for the two weight classes

Chery's Kunpeng DHT was bad, around 8.1 to 8.9 on the Tiggo 8 Plus e+. Typical Chery, overhyped and underperforming
Changan's IDD was also pretty bad, around 8.7 on Uni-K. Apparently it's also a really outdated hybrid design

GAC's Toyota-developed THS on the GS8 (HEV) was tested, not too bad around 7.3. Their newer Julang GMC2.0 is releasing soon, and some early reviewers (likely paid) claim they can easily reach 1300km on the Emkoo (HEV) and Empow (HEV). Also rumours Julang will have PHEV variants soon.


So far the road looks brightest for BYD, Geely (if they can stop releasing a million models) and GWM. GAC remains to be seen if they'll come up with PHEV variants but looks promising. But with Chery and Changan both having pretty mediocre products it means not a single one of the SOE giants currently have a competitive DHT system. SAIC, FAW, Dongfeng and BAIC are basically all still in dreamland.

Nio ES6 and Lixiang One are some of the top selling luxury SUVs, while Hongqi H9 and Nio ET7 are among the top selling luxury sedans, even among ICEVs.

Top selling NEV SUVs and sedans:

China exported 83,000 NEVs in August, an 82.3% increase YoY (about 42,000 of these were from Tesla).

BYD overtook LG Energy Solutions to become the second largest EV battery manufacturer in the world. This is no sign of slowdown for BYD.

Nio ET5 will be a strong competitor of Tesla Model 3.




Intel is using more than 50 Nio ES8 to test its autonomous driving system.

It would be funny to see BYD producing BYD Han in Hungary for the European market, first the Yuan invasion of Japan, now the Hun&Han invasion of Europe. I hope BYD keeps the cultural elements, at least the Chinese characters of the 汉 唐 元 on the export models, looks better than a generic BYD logo or english translation imo.

Some of the BYD Han reviews outside China still have the 汉 character aesthetics, while some of them are replaced. Does anyone know what the actual models exported look like?