New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

coolgod said:

BYD selling cars in Japan. Toyota and Honda ask to form Chinese joint ventures and use Chinese batteries for their EVs. Oh my, how the tables have turned. I don't think anyone could have predicted this 10 years ago

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It's sad how Toyota's latest electric car is pretty much a BYD knockoff. Imagine how redditors would react if all the major internal components of a Chinese car like the battery, motor, drivetrain, etc. were made in Japan and the only domestic thing is the shell.

tphuang said:

Alright, even Bloomberg caught onto this news

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150k per year doesn't sound like a lot, but this will probably be the largest plant outside of China until they build one in Europe. This will probably also do more local assembly than their other ones. The one in India is supposed to be SKD assembly and for 10k a year. I think they are also likely to do one in Brazil for CKD assembly and 10k a year. The one in Uzebekistan is likely to be somewhere in between.

Interesting how they said the EV supply chain will follow BYD there, since BYD is large part of its own supply chain. I do think it signals that the JV will do a lot of work locally. This is probably also to allow them to label cars to be exported as Thailand car and get around possible tariffs on Chinese cars.

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That's pretty huge. Like 1/10th of BYD's current capacity

Not a surprise that they went with Thailand. It's the gateway to the RHD market

FairAndUnbiased said:

China already has multiple state owned chipmakers in different fields.

is this as big of a problem for hybrid engines as it is for mechanically coupled ICE cars?

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No, even just on fuel consumption alone a hybrid car is still king currently IMO, paying 2/3k more than a ICE version a hybrid Toyota corolla can do something like 1000 km before needing to refuel it's 42L gas tank. It's a best of both worlds approach where you get both range and efficiency that won't be limited by emission standards for a while yet.

I think eventually all ICEs sales will be limited to hybrids.

tankphobia said:

No, even just on fuel consumption alone a hybrid car is still king currently IMO, paying 2/3k more than a ICE version a hybrid Toyota corolla can do something like 1000 km before needing to refuel it's 42L gas tank. It's a best of both worlds approach where you get both range and efficiency that won't be limited by emission standards for a while yet.

I think eventually all ICEs sales will be limited to hybrids.

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Hybrids are great for fuel consumption but I don't know how big an impact the new pollution standards will be on those hybrid engines

I've heard some saying that the particulate standards are so high that basically any ICE engine (including the hybrids) will need a particulate filter that will destroy performance and prices.

But then apparently a cheap car like Jetta VA3 (which doesn't have particulate filter iinm and uses a pretty old VW EA211DLF engine) also claims they meet 6B standards, so it may be less of a deal than we think

Maybe someone with more expertise can chip in.

It'll be great if DHT cars can become mainstream but at the moment (other than Qin Plus DMi which is crazy value) they're all too expensive because of the complexity. You could get a comparable petrol car for a few w cheaper and spend the money saved on petrol instead. Geely's Hi series and BYD's DM series are decent value right now, with GWM's DHT, Chery's DHT, Changan's IDD, GAC's PHEV a bit behind in terms of value and performance

sndef888 said:

Hybrids are great for fuel consumption but I don't know how big an impact the new pollution standards will be on those hybrid engines

I've heard some saying that the particulate standards are so high that basically any ICE engine (including the hybrids) will need a particulate filter that will destroy performance and prices.

But then apparently a cheap car like Jetta VA3 (which doesn't have particulate filter iinm and uses a pretty old VW EA211DLF engine) also claims they meet 6B standards, so it may be less of a deal than we think

Maybe someone with more expertise can chip in.

It'll be great if DHT cars can become mainstream but at the moment (other than Qin Plus DMi) they're all too expensive because of the complexity. You could get a comparable petrol car for a few w cheaper and spend the money saved on petrol instead. Geely's Hi series and BYD's DM series are decent value right now, with GWM's DHT, Chery's DHT, Changan's IDD, GAC's PHEV a bit behind

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Yeah, for an Australian perspective, long distance driving is a pretty common affair and hybrids cut the fuel cost almost in half, the payback period for a hybrid vs ICE is only like 3 years but I guess it really depends on driving habits. I've seen that they are amazing for city driving since idling consumes a huge amount of fuel.

Carry over from the other thread yesterday on Baidu AI cloud and automakers and such.

They officially announced a car cloud, which is focused on 3 cloud layers: 1) production/delivery/research/sales; 2) smart driving, AI solutions, AI training, connectivity/smart cabin (like map feature, charging station info); 3) supply chain management
Looks like Baidu clients include FAW, Geely, Dongfeng, NIO and Li Auto
Alibaba cloud clients include SAIC and XPeng
Huawei probably has some clients
Tencent no where to be found.

Since 2019, Geely has worked with Baidu AI cloud for their 「1+6+N」hybrid cloud platform. This reduced management costs by 30% and increased resource utilization by 20%.

在2022智能经济高峰论坛上，百度智能云发布全新战略“云智一体，深入产业”及“云智一体3.0”架构。沈抖表示，除了百度，国内还没有哪家云厂商，能在每一层都有领先的自研技术、产品和生态。他举例说，百度在AI IaaS层有昆仑芯片，AI PaaS层有深度学习框架飞桨和文心大模型。百度由此形成闭环智能化路径，做到端到端优化。如在昆仑芯的支撑下，AI异构计算平台百舸2.0，让量产车自动驾驶迭代周期从月级别缩短为周级别。

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Cloud Intelligence Integration 3.0 utilizes Kunlun chips and AI calculation platform BaiGe 2.0. Shortens the iteration time for automated driving from months to weeks.

BYD seems like the main one that's not mentioned here. Maybe they have their own datacenter somewhere. Chery is another missing one.

Yet more evidence that China's auto industry has arrived on the world stage: even the little Ora Funky Cat got EURO NCAP 5-star safety rating. Hopefully the days of videos of terrible crash tests of Chinese cars are gone forever from the YouTube.


Record NEV penetration rate in August: 30.1% wholesale; 28.3% retail:


Chine NEV exports in August and wholesale leader board:


Besides CATL, another manufacturer is building a plant for sodium batteries.

sunnymaxi said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1567702090876698628

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That's quite fast. Competition left in the dust