New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

Mcsweeney

Junior Member
Another impressive EV widely available in Western markets is the Polestar 2. As the guy in this video points out, it's under the Geely/Volvo brand umbrella but is pretty much 100% Chinese.

I swear, if NIO doesn't expand to Canada within a couple years I might have to go with this. I badly want an electric car but refuse to buy American (i.e. Tesla)
 

Mcsweeney

Junior Member
A guy at my workplace has a Tesla. I asked him how how his car was handling the -30 Celsius temperature (I have a gas car and it would not start). He said the electric car has no problems whatsoever starting up. The only issue is it loses maybe half of its range. So as long as you plan your routes accordingly you'll be okay with an electric car in the extreme cold. Electric cars are way more reliable in general because there's fewer moving parts, so there's less that can break down. This is why electric cars are such a game changer when it comes to car longevity; so long as car companies provide a way to easily change out a battery once it gets old and worn out, the rest of the car can probably last twice as long as a gas guzzler.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
In theory it would be like that. In practice they add lots of electronics and remote software updates which will become obsolete quickly. Or even worse like the Model S and X dashboard have limited endurance and need to be replaced.
Then there's battery lifetime. Companies like Tesla have proprietary battery packs and Tesla even remotely disables your car's fast charging features if you twiddle with the battery pack.

This will probably change with time as features get standardized but it might take a decade I think.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
A guy at my workplace has a Tesla. I asked him how how his car was handling the -30 Celsius temperature (I have a gas car and it would not start). He said the electric car has no problems whatsoever starting up. The only issue is it loses maybe half of its range. So as long as you plan your routes accordingly you'll be okay with an electric car in the extreme cold. Electric cars are way more reliable in general because there's fewer moving parts, so there's less that can break down. This is why electric cars are such a game changer when it comes to car longevity; so long as car companies provide a way to easily change out a battery once it gets old and worn out, the rest of the car can probably last twice as long as a gas guzzler.

I've always had Toyota. I bought my Rav in 2008 and it is getting close to 500,000ks on the original engine and its just started to use about 500mls of oil every 1400ks or so. Along the way I have replaced 2 water pumps , just on my second alternator and one starter motor.. I gave the transmission a midlife overhall at about the 350k mark and on my second rack and pinion. A couple of electrical thingys went last year. I also replace a couple of oil seals along the way.
looking at my repair receipts I've spent $5684 55c on things concerning the running of the engine plus $2185 on the automatic and the 2 rack and pinion repairs cost $2684.

Leaving out the Rack and Pinion costs over 8yrs/closer to 9 my Toyota has cost me$7869 in mechanical repairs. But when one compares it to the owners of electric cars its still cheaper

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Nissan Japan told Nissan Leaf owner with ‘range anxiety’ told a new battery for $13,000 car would cost $121,000​

"-------
Zoe loved her car, though. Everything seemed in perfect working order apart from the failing battery. So she wanted to replace it for a better one.
She contacted her local Nissan dealer. But instead of getting a solution, she was in for a shock.
"They quoted me $121,000 for a replacement battery from Japan!" she told TVNZ1's Fair Go.
Reeling from this ridiculous amount, Zoe got in touch with Nissan New Zealand's head office; they said they'd look into it, but months passed and she'd had no response.
Zoe also looked at second-hand replacement batteries. These were considerably more reasonable, but at $14,000 or so, they were still more expensive than her actual car without a huge increase in expected range. It was at this point Zoe came to Fair Go to see what we made of the situation.
Fair Go rang Nissan NZ and we did get a response, but it wasn't very satisfactory. The company said the quote of $121,000 for a new battery was "an error" but it wouldn't say how the error occurred, or what a correct price would be.
It was happy to go into detail about the extended battery warranty it now offers with brand new Nissan Leafs sold here in New Zealand, but would take no responsibility for the several thousand second-hand cars imported from Japan.
It added that any battery problems relating to these cars were the "sole responsibility of the vehicle importer".
We weren't the only ones unimpressed with this response. It got a shake of the head from Bill Alexander, who works at Blue Cars in Auckland, a company that specialises in electric vehicles.
"It isn't an acceptable answer. I think Nissan Japan is dodging a bit of a biggie with that," he says.
In his opinion, Nissan Japan and Nissan New Zealand should be co-operating to develop a way of providing cost-effective replacement batteries. Without this, thousands of cars could end up on New Zealand's scrap heap when the only thing wrong with them is the battery......."

I'll have a combustion engine vechile any day. The only time I'll be riding around in an electric car is inside a coffin.
 

Mcsweeney

Junior Member
Well it's a bit disingenuous to pull up one news story about a freak incident of a lady being quoted $121,000 in error for a replacement battery as evidence that electric cars are more costly. And the car in the story is an OLD 2011 Nissan Leaf. Of course electric car tech back then was terrible. Not to mention, CATL (the Chinese battery maker) is supposedly coming out with a battery that can last 1 million miles before it needs to be replaced. NIO as well has come out with a "Battery As A Service" model where you don't own the battery that's in the vehicle; instead, you rent it for a monthly fee. This means that the car is about $12,000 less up front. Battery is getting old? New battery comes out in the future that's more powerful? No problem! Just swap it out.

Consider also that the cost of powering up your car is roughly 1/6 the cost of refuelling your car (fluctuates depending on current gas prices), which adds up over time to big savings.
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Well it's a bit disingenuous to pull up one news story about a freak incident of a lady being quoted $121,000 in error for a replacement battery as evidence that electric cars are more costly. And the car in the story is an OLD 2011 Nissan Leaf. Of course electric car tech back then was terrible. Not to mention, CATL (the Chinese battery maker) is supposedly coming out with a battery that can last 1 million miles before it needs to be replaced. NIO as well has come out with a "Battery As A Service" model where you don't own the battery that's in the vehicle; instead, you rent it for a monthly fee. This means that the car is about $12,000 less up front. Battery is getting old? New battery comes out in the future that's more powerful? No problem! Just swap it out.

Consider also that the cost of powering up your car is roughly 1/6 the cost of refuelling your car (fluctuates depending on current gas prices), which adds up over time to big savings.
Cmon I also included her alternative battery cost of $14000 in the section of the article I posted.
Anyway I was comparing her costs on a 2011 Nissan to my 2012 Toyota. On the farm we also have another Toyota which runs on biofuel. which we manufacture ourselves which is cheaper to run again
You would have noticed that writer NEVER got a reply for the price but heres a story from Australia in which I am assuming is the cost of a new battery

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Nissan Leaf $33,000 battery bill
When parts prices go out of control, and Australian Consumer Law is treated as if optional - this is the kind of thing that happens
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
$33000 = about $45K NZplus the tax difference.
All the other things havent happened yet with the best of current cars range per charge rated around the 630 but in reality, it can be considerably less.
I don't think the cost of powering up a electric car will always remain 1/6th that of petrol. Im willing to wager taxes will be introduced to make up for the loss of govt and local taxes on petrol.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
If electric cars increase in use too quickly you can be certain electricity prices will go up too. IIRC typical electric grids can produce enough spare electricity to run like 20-30% of the cars on the road today. But more than that and you need to build extra generation capacity which will be really expensive. Plus the existing energy grid can't handle too many cars charging at the same time. With current fossil fuel electric generation like coal or natural gas you can charge electric vehicles in the nighttime when consumption is lowest. Because you are using what otherwise would be idle capacity electricity is cheap. But if you use renewables then for example solar can't be used in the nighttime. While wind power peaks around dusk and dawn. Now this isn't insurmountable but it will require really expensive infrastructure and possibly even societal chances around how and when people work. You wouldn't just be using idle capacity. You would be building new generation capacity.

If the state wants to create something similar to fuel taxes it will be relatively simple. With all the electronics present in electric vehicles they might simply require the vehicles report back to the state how many miles were driven. In the shorter run they might simply add a fixed tax for road maintenance purposes.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
I wonder how electric ars are coping in extremely cold conditions?
They don't is the short answer. Plenty of Tesla's in my neighborhood, and they all completely disappear from the roads once -15C hits. And it's almost always -15C or lower in most of Canada for 5 months.

The battery life (range) is drastically reduced once it's cold. Think 1/4 range if it's -30C.

When it's cold, the driver will also want to turn on heating, butt heater, steering wheel heater, etc. So more power draw.

Hopefully Polestar being designed in Sweden would do better in cold weather, but batteries are still the limitation.

The car batteries are basically the same thing in your cell phone x 10000. If I use my phone outside on a full charge when -20C or lower (I did that last week walking the dog) it dies in 10 minutes watching videos. Normally it'll be hours. This also applies to cars.
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hongqi’s problem is the spelling. Pronunciation wise I’ve never met a person who couldn’t pronounce Hong Kong or Tai-chi.

Not gonna lie, "Hongqi" does sound pretty stupid, even when translated into "Red Flag".

To no fault of the Koreans, it also sucks that Hyundai sounds similar to Honda, which is also why they are now pushing "Genesis" as the luxury brand.

Hongqi is perfectly acceptable in the chinese market, but they should rebrand into something like "Pinnacle" or "Apex" for non-chinese markets to properly convey the upscale nature of the product, which was what was really implied with "Red Flag", being the best that 60's era china had to offer.
 
Top