New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

Legume7 said:

It's not just security, but the use of influencers and bots to defame other brands as well as multiple documented cases of industrial espionage. The worst thing is Xiaomi uses these influencers to create a "Jai Hind"-like cult of personality around Xiaomi and Lei Jun so that Xiaomi fans believe Xiaomi is always being victimized. Xiaomi also uses its influencers and botnet to mass report posts to limit their visibility, or in some cases, get them taken down.

For reference, the cult-like behavior is so extreme that Xiaomi influencers were caught recruiting minors to defame competitors. Multiple Xiaomi influencers directly affiliated with the highest levels of management have been arrested for violating the law. One escaped to Italy.

Xiaomi constantly boasts about their self-developed technologies, but they largely license, or in some cases, outright steal, technology from other companies. I would caution against taking anything written about Xiaomi on social media at face value, especially after this incident. Xiaomi's internet army was able to suppress news of the accident for 2 whole days before the authorities stepped in.

Some high-profile members of this forum use posts from Xiaomi influencers as news. I hope this is done out of ignorance, and not malice. While Xiaomi has made contributions to science and technology, we should seek truth from facts and not be tricked by their false marketing.

Click to expand...

So what technology they stole from which companies?

tankphobia said:

A few pointers:
-vehicle was moving at 116 km/h pre-crash on a road undergoing maintenance going into single open lane with a speed limit of 40km/h
- Sensing the road narrowing ahead, the vehicle returned control to the driver from self driving.
- given the speed the vehicle is moving at, even at max detection distance of 250m this is only 7.7 seconds before impact.
- the driver panicked and over corrected, crashing the vehicle.

This is really a lesson in sufficient driver attention monitoring more than anything. All self driving cars do terribly with road works, as it requires going the wrong direction or interpretation of hand signals from traffic control. It could happen to any other car brand.

Click to expand...

I think this fatal accident of Xiaomi SU7 is just a reminder that fully autonomous driving is at least a decade away, while an idiot-proof one will never be available.

Bloomberg estimated that Tesla's global delivery number would be 340,000-377,000 in Q1, while the actual number is 336,681 units. In comparison, BYD sold 416,388 passenger BEVs. It's almost certainly that BYD's BEV delivery will overtake Tesla's in 2025.

New York Times: Dongfeng Motor and Changan Auto are in advanced talk to merge.

A lot of swapping stations in the future: I think Nio/CATL's long-term goal is also 10,000 swapping stations.

siegecrossbow said:

Well many companies in China do this kind of stuff. Not just exclusive to Xiaomi.

Click to expand...

Shady or not, one has to be impressed by how well Xiaomi executed on their first attempt. Driving dynamics especially, Xiaomi nailed it while Chinese automakers who have decades of experience by now still put out cars with mushy suspensions and vague, disconnected steering.

ZeEa5KPul said:

Shady or not, one has to be impressed by how well Xiaomi executed on their first attempt. Driving dynamics especially, Xiaomi nailed it while Chinese automakers who have decades of experience by now still put out cars with mushy suspensions and vague, disconnected steering.

Click to expand...

Xiaomi can just hire engineers from other Chinese automakers who have decades of experience.

supercat said:

I think this fatal accident of Xiaomi SU7 is just a reminder that fully autonomous driving is at least a decade away, while an idiot-proof one will never be available.

Click to expand...

I'm still sceptical they'll actually get there, people have a far lower tolerance of autonomous machines messing up than human error. safer than human driver is not enough, it needs to be perfect.

There need to be clear differentiation between driver assist and self driving. There's a huge difference between the two and the resultant expected responsibility of the driver.

tankphobia said:

I'm still sceptical they'll actually get there, people have a far lower tolerance of autonomous machines messing up than human error. safer than human driver is not enough, it needs to be perfect.

There need to be clear differentiation between driver assist and self driving. There's a huge difference between the two and the resultant expected responsibility of the driver.

Click to expand...

The thing with autonomous driving is that it cannot be tried and found guilty. It is not able to feel remorse for someone they killed. They cannot be held responsible in the same way.

Legume7 said:

The worst thing is Xiaomi uses these influencers to create a "Jai Hind"-like cult of personality around Xiaomi and Lei Jun so that Xiaomi fans believe Xiaomi is always being victimized. Xiaomi also uses its influencers and botnet to mass report posts to limit their visibility, or in some cases, get them taken down.

Click to expand...

Sounds like a sure way for him to get Jack-Ma'd eventually.
Fly too close to the sun and you risk getting burnt

henrik said:

So what technology they stole from which companies?

Click to expand...

For phone: Wi-Fi 7 technology, variable aperture lenses, ultra chroma camera, all from Huawei. For auto, which I know less about: they claimed that the SU7's battery was co-developed with CATL until the CATL CEO came out to clarify that Xiaomi did not participate in R&D. To be fair to Xiaomi, in terms of technology, they are still 100x better than their foreign/JV counterparts in both phones and auto. They beat Samsung in price/performance in almost all segments, and they haven't done anything nearly as extreme as, say, the Volkswagen emissions scandal.

What leaves a bad taste in people's mouths is that Xiaomi's influencers only target domestic brands, while leaving foreign brands largely unscathed. We can see this in the smartphone industry, which I'm most familiar with. Xiaomi (and Oppo) executives were publically chearing for the US government to sanction Huawei. But when Huawei was sanctioned, they captured no market share in the high end space against Apple. As I said in another thread, Oppo's entire strategy now is to market their phones as OPhones and to imitate Apple as closely as possible. This is a failing strategy as Apple's share in China is falling year-on-year. As an aside, Honor is becoming more Jai Hind after forcing out CEO Eric Zhao. There's a lot of internal politics within Honor, and their position is the most variable.

March sales of Chinese vehicles (and Tesla) in Australia:

BYD: 4811 sales, #7, up 197%
GWM: 4393 sales, #8, up 21%
MG: 3926 sales, #10, down 1%
Tesla: 2829 sales, #13, down 53%
Chery: 2182 sales, #16, up 293%
LDV: 1215 sales, #22, down 10%
Geely: 188 sales, #34, new
JAC: 117 sales, #40, new
Zeekr: 112 sales, #41, new
Leapmotor: 87 sales, #42, new

And across Q1:

GWM: 11579 sales, #7, up 14%
MG: 11405 sales, #8, down 8%
BYD: 8767 sales, #12, up 95%
Chery: 6057 sales, #14, up 216%
Tesla: 5160 sales, #16, down 60%
LDV: 3561 sales, #20, down 22%
JAC: 525 sales, #35, new
Zeekr: 211 sales, #40, new
Geely: 188 sales, #41, new
Leapmotor: 138 sales, #43, new

Deepal and Xpeng are also here but evidently can't be bothered to report sales either via FCAI or the new EV Council body...

This is the first month in which Australia has had three Chinese brands inside the Top 10. Also, while GWM has surpassed MG in isolated months before, this is the first quarter in which GWM has taken the lead from MG as the leading Chinese brand (or family of brands) in Australia. Chery is also flying.

BYD has recorded its best-ever monthly sales and highest brand rank to date, with Shark's 2810 sales making it the 6th best-selling vehicle (and 3rd best-selling ute) in the country in March, sandwiched between new Toyota Prado (a.k.a Landcruiser 250) and Ford Everest. Shark is only ("only") the 12th best-selling vehicle (and 4th best-selling ute) across Q1, owing to vehicles only being delivered to customers from late January. March was the last month that PHEVs were eligible for a tax exemption here, so it may be that Shark and Sealion 6 sales dip in the months ahead.

Back in November 2024:

Lethe said:

Amidst the stagnation of Tesla in Australia, and with BYD looking to add both Shark 6 and Sealion 7 to its local offerings in the coming months, a previously unthinkable prospect presents itself: could BYD outsell Tesla in Australia in 2025?

Click to expand...

Narrator: yes, yes they can.

Numbers via .