New Chinese Military Developments

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

rhino123 said:

Of course there are other vehicles to do other more specific jobs. That is just common sense.

What I meant in the main job of heavy tank is not just to kill other tank, killing other tank is just one of the job for heavy tank. It was also acting as an assault platform, pyschological effect on enemy and even act as artillery unit.

If you are talking about just knocking other tanks out, then I would also tell you the same thing that you have told me - there are plenty of other vehicle to do the job.

Click to expand...

That's right; the quintessential role of the tank is a heavily armoured direct fire weapons system, providing support to the infantry and operating independently.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

You can strap on the biggest gun you can find. You can make a 100 ton tank with a 300mm gun, that can shoot out to 4 km's. Yeah. these wonder tanks that the Russians have been promising, and the Chinese have been hinting at (which, haven't seen combat)is just PR.

I'll take an M60 with a well trained crew up against 4 Chinese/Russian tanks any old day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

tankboy2k said:

You can strap on the biggest gun you can find. You can make a 100 ton tank with a 300mm gun, that can shoot out to 4 km's. Yeah. these wonder tanks that the Russians have been promising, and the Chinese have been hinting at (which, haven't seen combat)is just PR.

I'll take an M60 with a well trained crew up against 4 Chinese/Russian tanks any old day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Click to expand...

And I say my new super M for MODERATOR tank got your T for TROLL tank under its auto stabilized sights and ready to blow your Membership in this forum to tiny little bits.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

If you are talking about just knocking other tanks out, then I would also tell you the same thing that you have told me - there are plenty of other vehicle to do the job.

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about any tanks. I'm talking about the heavy tanks, and not the lighter and medium tanks.

Yeah, there are other vehicles that could fight a heavy tank, but their less powerful gun can not penetrate the heavy armor, and their armor can not protect them against the powerful shot the heavy tank can deal them. Lighter vehicles will be easily defeated by enemy heavy tanks.

This is all pretty much common sense, so which part are you not getting?

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

jackbh said:

I'm not talking about any tanks. I'm talking about the heavy tanks, and not the lighter and medium tanks.

Yeah, there are other vehicles that could fight a heavy tank, but their less powerful gun can not penetrate the heavy armor, and their armor can not protect them against the powerful shot the heavy tank can deal them. Lighter vehicles will be easily defeated by enemy heavy tanks.

This is all pretty much common sense, so which part are you not getting?

Click to expand...

A heavier tank is less mobile, more difficult to produce, more expensive, and is a larger and more visible target.

Your logic only holds true in a 1 on 1 tank duel on a open plain. But in today's battlefields, where combined arms tactics are the norm, your larger and heavier tank would be already be dead from either artillery, attack helicopters, strike aircraft, missiles, etc.

Furthermore light armour has the ability to hold its own against heavier armour, through hit and run tactics. Because lighter armour is more mobile, they can employ shoot and scoot tactics, firing ATGM's then running away and ducking behind cover.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Ok, that's a good point.

Maybe you should deploy a mix of different types of armor, so you get different advantage.

I consider M1A2 to be a type of heavy armor, but it's not too slow and couldn't move around very well. And M1A2 is indeed very expensive to produce and a very large target.

In world war II, there used to be a mix of armor deployed together. There was the heavy tank, medium and light tanks. Each fighting along side of each other. They each have different purpose on the battle field but work well together.

There is now not many countries have a mix of heavy tanks and lighter tanks together in service in the army.

China seemed to be an exception with the type-99 which is heavier tank than the type-96 and other even lighter and older tanks in the PLA.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Would it be better to choose a 'long' 120/5mm round or a shorter 140mm round for any next generation main battle tanks?

A 140mm round might be better at doing other jobs (destroying buildings, firing canister, using guided missiles) but the 120/5mm would simplify logistics and probably be lighter.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

jackbh said:

Ok, that's a good point.

Maybe you should deploy a mix of different types of armor, so you get different advantage.

I consider M1A2 to be a type of heavy armor, but it's not too slow and couldn't move around very well. And M1A2 is indeed very expensive to produce and a very large target.

In world war II, there used to be a mix of armor deployed together. There was the heavy tank, medium and light tanks. Each fighting along side of each other. They each have different purpose on the battle field but work well together.

There is now not many countries have a mix of heavy tanks and lighter tanks together in service in the army.

China seemed to be an exception with the type-99 which is heavier tank than the type-96 and other even lighter and older tanks in the PLA.

Click to expand...

Because the concept of the super heavy tank died out at the start of the Cold War. The current tanks are considered main battle tanks; they are essentially medium tanks with the firepower of what was considered a heavy tank.

Current trend is to move towards smaller tanks; in otherwords, vehicles that are more strategically mobile.

The role of light and calvary tanks have been taken up by the new wheeled assault guns, such as the Stryker MGS and other similar vehicles.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

Super Tanks as it is and for those who are obessed with big guns, are useful in many ways, we do not doubt this point. And as Jackbh had helpfully pointed out, large cannon would kill another tank easily (Heavy Tank).

However a super tank is costly. China - in fact not many countries in this world had a large stockpile of 140mm tank rounds. So logistic will be a nightmare. We must think of supply chain too.

Now lets look into some of the question of having such a tank -

1. In order to support this type of tank, a new crew of technicians, engineers must be trained.

2. Can the current existing chassis carry such a large calibre cannon or do they need to be redesign the entire thing or only slight.

3. Is it really necessary to have such big cannons? Can other alternatives be viable? Missiles, smaller cannons but with more rounds (high penetration).

4. Since huge cannons carry heavier rounds, this means more power is needed, and that the engine of the tank will thus be more stressed, and I would believe it will slow the speed by quite a bit. This would make the tank easier to spot and kill by enemy's missile men.

5. Large tank would be easier to track and spot, thus richer opponents would easily call in assault copters to do the job of attacking it.

6. Supply line. Large tank, with their stressed engine or larger engine would suck up gas/petrol/diesel/kerosene/ whatever fuel it use to power in an amazing rate. This mean that they will required bigger fuel tanks or their operating distance will be shortened visibly.

7. China is a country that depends alot on external nations to supply their petrol and gas, thus it would not be so visible to have a tank that suck up too much fuel. It would definitely render these vehicles kind of useless.

8. Also if a tank is too slow, other vehicles can easily jump in on them making short work of them.

9. Can the cannon be fire on the move? Can the tank's chassis support such big guns with much higher recoil? If cannot, what is the use of this tank - as a mobile artillery unit?

10. The terrain that this tank will be designed to travel in. Can it be use in swamp? Thick forest?

11. Can current transport structure in China support this type of tanks?

So far these are only a few questions of implementing super tank. I believe these are more important to tank designers and military experts than classic Heavy Tank VS Heavy Tank scenario.

Thanks.

Re: new Chinese supertank,question....

china needs to modernize its aging airforce and to build more modern submarines and surface combatants to maintain its current economical growth.The growth needs natural resources and the natural resources are far away from china.the trade routes and the stability of china partners can be protected only by projecting modern and solid airpower and seapower