Naval Helicopter thread

[MwRYum]

many Western sources state that EC175/Z15 will be modified for the Chinese military but there has been nothing offical, EC175 can fullfill many roles, rescue, relief, firefighting, accident and saftey, these roles alone will require many helos

China made 13 ton AC313 few years ago, I think this was a testbed for reseach and development for a much more advanced and larger helo that China will develop which will go to the military, in addition China already has 20 ton helo under development and a 13 ton and identifed the need for a 10 ton helo also

I guess we will have to wait and see when they emerge

As a platform the Z-8 is still valuable, especially for China when they are lacking in the helicopter sector, it's easier to build up on an established platform than scratch-build. As for the AC-313, we can see much of the result has been applied on the Z-8K.

Z-15 will definitely offer a superior platform for anything other than attack or recon, as we see the Chinese have already stretch the Z-9 platform to its limit in filling all those roles - what China needs is something in the UH-60 / NH-90 / EH-101 class.

One might ask "what about the Mi-171?", knowing the Chinese ways, as well as the Russians' now reluctance in selling things to China (though they'd protest otherwise on Kanwa...), little wonder how much choice Chinese got on this...

 

[Hendrik_2000]

As a platform the Z-8 is still valuable, especially for China when they are lacking in the helicopter sector, it's easier to build up on an established platform than scratch-build. As for the AC-313, we can see much of the result has been applied on the Z-8K.

Z-15 will definitely offer a superior platform for anything other than attack or recon, as we see the Chinese have already stretch the Z-9 platform to its limit in filling all those roles - what China needs is something in the UH-60 / NH-90 / EH-101 class.

One might ask "what about the Mi-171?", knowing the Chinese ways, as well as the Russians' now reluctance in selling things to China (though they'd protest otherwise on Kanwa...), little wonder how much choice Chinese got on this...

Well MwRYum

Here is the first picture of AC313 AWAC in navy color We have this discussion before You say China doesn't have high flying Helicopter I counter your argument with AC313 can fly 8000 feet way higher than DRUV that can't even reached 5000 ft . Guess what here it is

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Here is the old Z8_AWAC_Prototype

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[i.e.]

One might ask "what about the Mi-171?", knowing the Chinese ways, as well as the Russians' now reluctance in selling things to China (though they'd protest otherwise on Kanwa...), little wonder how much choice Chinese got on this...

Chengdu has an Mi-171 "rebuild" line up and running, with Russian Knock down kits and domestic metal work.

those who has more time on their hands can dig up some pictures of freshly minted mi-171s under checkout on tarmac.

 

[tphuang]

btw, AC-313 is the civilian version. It is aka Z-8F100. PLA really can't use AC-313, because it has to use domestic engines.

 

[MwRYum]

Well MwRYum

Here is the first picture of AC313 AWAC in navy color We have this discussion before You say China doesn't have high flying Helicopter I counter your argument with AC313 can fly 8000 feet way higher than DRUV that can't even reached 5000 ft . Guess what here it is

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The first one is interesting, it probably indicates that project migrated into the modern Z-8F platform, ie. it maintained a degree of importance that may see its day of service on the ex-Varyag instead of the Russian platform.

And I can't help to remind you that the AC-313 is a civilian model with PWC engine, and it ain't directly translate into the Z-8F series, though they might share a degree of commonality in terms of structure and layout. At this time, it's the Mi-171 and the surviving S-70 that's cleared for highland operations...and according to one documentary made by the CCTV, the Mi-171 still suffers in performance there.

 

[franco-russe]

AsS tphuang says, AC-313 is Z-8F-100.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Like they say the civilian AC313 has military analogue Z8-F100

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AC313 goes into production
Global Times | January 05, 2012 23:20
By Yu Xi Share

AC313 goes into production
A China-made civil helicopter has won approval from the nation's civil aviation regulator to enter into the market, the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) announced Thursday.

This marks the official certification for the production of the AC313, Asia's largest helicopter.

The company has got five orders for the AC313 from China Flying Dragon General Aviation Co, indicating the helicopter will be put into production soon this year, a AVIC staff who declined to be named told the Global Times yesterday.

The AC313 can carry 27 passengers with a maximum takeoff weight of 13.8 tons, and can be used for transportation, rescue missions, medical aid and emergency search, AVIC said.

"The production of the helicopter has a great significance to the Chinese aviation industry, and there's a great market potential in China," said Li Lei, a Beijing-based aviation analyst with China Securities Co.

Li said the development of helicopters in China is still restricted by government policies and technology limitations, but the demand for private helicopters is rising.

State-owned AVIC has spent four years on research and development of the AC313. It made two trial flights to the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau in 2010 and 2011.

"China is in need of helicopters that can be used widely in emergency search, forest fire prevention and civil lease, especially in the highland areas with difficult landing conditions for normal planes," Gao Yuanyang, a researcher at World Civil Aviation Resource Net, a Hefei-based civil aviation Web portal, told the Global Times Thursday.

Gao said China's general aviation flight industry is still in its infancy, but the development of private helicopters will take the lead because "it's convenient for helicopters to take off and land, especially in China where there's not enough resources to build many airports needed for jet landing."

The international general aviation market is quite mature now and private flight business will be a new trend in China with the increasing need of private helicopters, Gao noted.

General aviation refers to private and commercial flights and does not include military or scheduled airlines.

Domestic aviation technology is almost mature, but needs improvements for accessories production, Shen Zhengyuan, an aviation analyst with the CIC Industry Research Center, told the Global Times Thursday.

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[delft]

"it's convenient for helicopters to take off and land, especially in China where there's not enough resources to build many airports needed for jet landing."

A nonsensical remark by Global Times. If a helicopter is fast enough you might go to an aircraft with propeller(s) driven by piston engine(s). If you want to go somewhat faster use turboprops. Only if that is to slow you go to turbofan(s). There are ways of making propeller driven aircraft that can use quite short runways and they are likely to annoy the neighbors less than helicopters do.

Also, transport cost by helicopter is about ten times what it is by winged aircraft for a similar speed and range.

 

[tphuang]

The first one is interesting, it probably indicates that project migrated into the modern Z-8F platform, ie. it maintained a degree of importance that may see its day of service on the ex-Varyag instead of the Russian platform.

And I can't help to remind you that the AC-313 is a civilian model with PWC engine, and it ain't directly translate into the Z-8F series, though they might share a degree of commonality in terms of structure and layout. At this time, it's the Mi-171 and the surviving S-70 that's cleared for highland operations...and according to one documentary made by the CCTV, the Mi-171 still suffers in performance there.

When AC-313 made it's maiden flight, the flight certificate actually referred to it as Z-8F-100. I don't think it gets more clear than that.

 

[Jeff Head]

Well, ka-31s are designed for AEW roles to be flown off aicraft carriers. They don't do the ASW or SAR that your average DDGs need. So it is possible they could carry ka-31s on 052C but I'd have to wait to see how that is employed.

I'd say they are for the carriers and perhaps the LPDs...but mainly the carriers. Each carrier would embark a wing of probably three of these so they can sustain AEW coveraage when needed.