Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

Engineer

Major
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Why? because US doesn't want China to know that they detect preparation for the test.

I think it has more to do with US's desire to perpetuate the idea that China is backward. The US promotes the China threat theory, but at the same time down plays any capability shown by China. Reports from US about China's ICBM inventory serve as good examples. The J-20 being another very good example.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Well I wouldn't know if it's an ASBM test but the only pics I've personally seen when reflectors are used in tests were on like flat barges assuming that were to give it a signature of a ship. Thus since a carrier is big they would have to give a smaller ship a larger signature to make it look like a carrier. Maybe there's a reasonable explanation but why would they use refectors on a ship to test standard weapons when it was designed to hit a ship?

If it were an ASBM test that the ship was sunk even with the reflectors, I'd say that was pretty successful beyond just hitting big carriers. I would imagine if it hit in the near vicinity it would've been considered a success. But it was still hit in what would be essentially center mass.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

The ship could easily have been sunk and then raised again to send to the breakers.

As for corner detectors, well, has anyone considered that they might have been added for a separate test as any missile firings?

The PLA could easily have been testing out some new OTH radars or radar spysats to see how easily they can pick up a carrier sized target and at what distance.

During the missile test, the reflectors could have also given them a good indication of how far away the active seekers on the missiles would have been able to pick out a carrier sized target to help refine tactics and procedures for trying to take one out.

Those are just some of the more obvious possibilities, and I am sure there are many many more others, and given everything we know, especially the part about the test being so far ago that they have had time to raise the ship and send it to the breakers, I would have to say that this being the result of an AShBM test is probably the least likely of all possibilities.

If the PLA did test an AShBM out at sea, they would have to be silly to think the US, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and even Vietnam would not know about it.

If the PLA does fire an AShBM at a sea based target, it will be to send a message to the above nations as much as to validate the missile system itself, the same as the Chinese ASAT test. It would be pointless for the Americans to keep quite about such an event because it will be so easily detected by so many others, and also because the US having the ability to detect such a test and piece together the pieces is a forgone conclusion and the US would not be tipping its hand in any way to acknowledge that they could see what was going on.

I am starting to think that this whole rumor started because someone saw the pictures of corner reflectors pointing skywards, and DF21D was the first thing to pop into their mind, made a comment online and the internet did the rest.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

radar reflectors are really nothing new. China tests out new weapons all the time. They have Catamaran ships with radar reflectors. But when it comes to DF-21D, it's a whole new beast when you think about it's possible guidance, the entire targeting process and such. If some test for DF-21D really taken place, I think it would've leaked out by now. I will just leave it there and say this story of YuanWang 4 and DF-21D seems quite unlikely from my point of view.
Particularly when you look at the picture of the ship itself. It does not look like a vessel that was hit by a hypersonic ballistic missilee that is designed to sink a 100,000 ton aircraft carrier.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

So can you give me explanation as to why the Yuanwang 4 ship is fitted with Radar reflector before it is sunk?

I am still waiting for reasonable explanation.

No reason it couldn't be for testing other anti ship weapons against the RCS of a carrier, doesn't have to be for DF-21D

Particularly when you look at the picture of the ship itself. It does not look like a vessel that was hit by a hypersonic ballistic missilee that is designed to sink a 100,000 ton aircraft carrier.

Lol let's not exaggerate :p
We've all said how DF-21D probably can't, and wasn't designed, to sink a supercarrier (at least not with one shot) and there's no reason the former yuanwang ship could've been tested against a dummy warhead that only grazed the ship or maybe it was an airburst warhead. Either way the picture's angle isn't good so we can't ascertain damage.
This ship was obviously in some sort of weapons test like engineer said, and it was probably simulating a rather large ship with all those reflectors on it (possibly increasing RCS upwards as well, for a weapon whose array would be directe downwards)... Whether it was AShBM or not is another question, given that the US, Japan etc will probably have all freaked out to one degree or another when the test was conducted yet we're hearing nothing.

I'd like to know the story behind this ship as well, but alas this is the wrong thread for AShBM talk.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

firng DF-21 could easily detected by NORAD,judgihg from the damage more likely C-802
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

firng DF-21 could easily detected by NORAD,judgihg from the damage more likely C-802

If C-802 need radar reflector to hit large ship then it is hopeless beyond any help. I doubt it Thailand navy have tested C-801 an older model without any radar reflector

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My guess is they test the seeker of ASBM without using missile but using conventional anti ship missile
 
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Quickie

Colonel
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

The four large radar reflectors on the decommissioned YUANWANG 4 – one in the bows, one in front of the bridge, two on top of the helicopter hangar – were directed UPWARDS. They were evidently there to make it easier for the DF-21D to find its target.

Rumour was that it was sunk about January 2011.

The ship don't even have to be sinked. The ship, installed with the reflectors, could be used to simulate the RCS signature of a carrier. The functionality of the AShBM seeker can be tested by mounting it on a test aircraft and flying it high over the simulated targed.
 
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delft

Brigadier
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

I like the reasoning of plawolf and Bltizo but a weapons test would likely use a dummy warhead. If their was still enough damage to sink the ship that might have been caused by the kinetic energy of the warhead, i.e. a ballistic missile. The ship is much smaller than a carrier and doesn't have an armored deck.
Of course the ship might also have met with an accident after or even before the weapons tests.
 
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