Moderated Taiwan Invasion Wargame

-_-;; You guys need to agree on what military assets are avail to both sides in 2008 first. Also, it's unrealistic to assume all air and naval assets are avail. Some will be undergoing refit/maintenance.

Here's a list of recent military procurements by the ROCAF:


Currently, as of Dec 2005, the ROCAF is known to have 120 AIM-120 AMRRAM's and 58 Harpoon's in its inventory. These are air-launched weapons intended for use by F-16's, and does not include other Harpoon missiles in ROC inventory, such as those owned by the Navy.

The US has consented to sell the AGM-88C HARM missile to ROCAF, however NONE has been delivered to date. The US is also still undecided on exporting JDADM to ROCAF. If the ROC player wants to use HARM, there is a domestic TC-2A variant:


For air to ground weapons, the US as delivered some GBU-12 500lb paveway & GBU-10 2,000 lb bombs in the past. The US also sold 48 LAU-117 Maverick launchers for ROCAF F-16's, as well as 40 AGM-65G Maverick missiles in 2001 (note: Taiwan has existing inventory of older AGM-65B Mavericks originally purchased for F-5E's). The US has also released the software code to ROCAF to enable land-attack capability for the air-launched Harpoons, aka "Coastal Target Suppression mod" with GPS guidance. Note: this is not the Harpoon block II upgrade kit. The US did agree to sell 32 Harpoon block II's with the 4 Kidd class ships, but there's no verification that the air-launched versions in ROCAF inventory are block II vairants.

I'll cover ROCAF, ROCN aviation, & ROCA aviation assets briefly here:

IDF fighters:
AIDC is known to have manufacturered 4 IDF prototypes, 102 F-CK-1A fighters, and 28 F-CK-1B trainers. 1 prototype, 1 F-CK-1A, and 2 F-CK-1B have been lost to crashes. The primary weapons equipped on IDF fighters are TC-1 and TC-2 missiles. The IDF is also known to be able to launch HF series AShM's.

F-16A/B block 20:
The ROCAF received 120 F-16A and 30 F-16B's from the US, equipped with AN/APG-66(v)3 radar, and munitions stock of 600 AIM-7M Sparrow and 900 AIM-9M sidewinders in original purchase. Since then the ROCAF also took delivery of 48 LAU-117 Maverick launchers, 40 AGM-65G's, 120 AIM-120's, 58 AGM-84A's, plus assorted upgrade variants of the AIM-7 and AIM-9.

The ROCAF suffered 2 F-16A and 2 F-16B crashes. All 4 aircraft are considered total loss/withdrawn from service.

Dassault Mirage 2000-5:
ROCAF took delivery of 48 single seat Mirage 2000-5Ei and 12 two-seat Mirage-2000-5Di's in 1992, along with munitions stock of 960 MICA and 480 Magic-II missiles, plus some DEFA 554 gun pods for the 2 seater vairant.

The ROCAF suffered 1 Mirage-2000-5Ei and 2 Mirage 2000-5-Di crashes, all 3 aircraft have been written off.

Northrop/AIDC F-5E/F:
The ROCAF took delivery of approx. 242 F-5E's and 66 F-5F's since 1974. Some were imported from the US, others locally assembled by AIDC. About 1/3rd of the F-5 fleet were lost or have been withdrawn from service (i.e. static display at schools and parks, not in reserve/not combat capable).

In 2005 the ROCAF reduced their active F-5E/F squadrones from 6 down to 3. The remaining F-5E/F's in service are used primarily for training, but are still combat-capable. The ROCAF F-5E/F's are equipped with AIIM-9P4 sidewinders, AGM-65B, GBU-10/12, LAU-3/60 guided bombs, rocket pods, plus a large assortment of unguided bombs.

For "war game" purposes, we could assume that, out of 308 F-5E/F's the ROCAF received, 128 have been written off (some were given away, such as the 12 sent to Paraguay in 1998), 90 are non-operational/long term storage, and 90 are currently in use for training/reserve units.

AIDC has a Tiger-2000 upgrade program that had much speculation over the years. Like the J-8 in PLAAF used as test bed, AIDC used a F-5E with fuselage TC-2 missile rail to test the TC-2 missile, leading to speculation that the Tiger 2000 program may incorporate GD-53 radar and TC-2 missile capability. However at this time there is no proof that the Tiger 2000 project is even active.

AIDC AT-3 trainers
ROCAF received 60 dual-seat AT-3 jet trainers from AIDC in 1980's. ROCAF fighter pliots are given approx. 110 hours of flight training in the AT-3 trainer. So far 10 have been lost to accidents, and 2 have been upgraded with APG-66T radar upgrade and can carry 2x HF-2 missiles. AIDC also made 2 "XA-3" attacker vairants based on AT-3 for ROCN, but ROCN declined to purchase any.

For our "war gaming" purpose, the ROC player could convert some additional AT-3's to AShM capability in 2006-2008. However if the timeline is 2006, then the total number of converted trainers would be very limited.

Northrop Grumman E-2T Hawkeye
ROCAF currently operates 4 E-2T and 2 E-2T 2000 Hawkeye early warning aircraft. One E-2T crashed but was reported to have been repaired and returned to active service.

The E-2T is reported to be able to track more than 2,000 targets and guide interception of 40 hostile targets at ranges over 550km. The aircraft has operational range of 300 km / 4 hours 30 min on station.

Other ROCAF assets
ROCAF also operates a number of Beech 1900C, Fokker 50, T-34C, and C-130 aircraft. One Lockheed Martin C-130HE is known to have been modified by CSIST for EW and SIGINT missions. The project was referred to as "Tien Gan" and the aircraft is reported to have the capability to jam PRC air defense radars (unconfirmed).

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ROCN (Naval) aviation

Northrop Grumman S-2T
The ROCAF received a total of 25 S-2E and 7 S-2G aircraft, of which 27 were converted to S-2T standard and transferred to ROCN command. The S-2T upgrade includes engine swap, increased payload, AN/AQS-92F, A/NARR-84, Litton AN/APS-504 radar, AN/ASQ-504 magnetic anomaly detector, AN/AAS-40 FLIR. etc. (basically, stuff to help you find a submarine).

To date, 1 S-2T has been lost to crash, and of the 26 S-2T remaining, only 50% are reported to be operational at any time, with the other half in reserve or maintenance.

Hughes 500MD/ASW Defender
The ROCN purchased 12 Hughes 500MD/ASW defender in the 1980's, plus an additional unarmed trainer. There have been 5 crashes, which resulted in total loss of 3 aircraft, with the other 2 repaired and returend to service.

The Hughes 500MD/ASW helo is equipped with ASQ-81C magnetic anomaly detector and 1 or 2 mk44 or mk46 torpedos. These are light ASW helos, Hughes built 26, 12 for Taiwan and 14 for Spain. The ROCN variant has a radar as well as sonar, and can carry up to 2 torpedos, but usually only 1 to increase mission range up to 500km. These helos can also carry ASW sinking bombs, or converted for land attack missions with gun pods, grenade launchers, and TOW missiles.

Sikorsky S-70C Thunderhawk
The ROCN received 20 S-70C's, of which 2 were lost of accidents, and 1 replacement was purchased. These S-70C's are ASW variants with An/AQS-18(v)3 sonar, AN/APS-143(v)3 radar, and 3 external bomb racks that can be used with Mk46 torpedos or 120 gallon drop tanks.

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ROCA (Army) Aviation

Bell AH-1W Supercobra
The ROCA Aviation's primary offensive asset is the Bell AH-1W Supercobra. 63 were purchased with 1 lost to accident. The AH-1W were delivered with 1,000 AGM-114C hellfire anti-tank missiles 240 AGM-114K3 Hellfires, and 300 AIM-9S sidewinders, plus an unknown quantity of BGM-71 TOW missiles.

The ROCA AH-1W's have been upgraded with the NTSF-65 night targetting system for all weather combat. The AH-1W is equipped with M197 triple barrel 20mm cannon, and can be equipped with rocket pods, hellfire, TOW missile, & sidewinders. Each AH-1W can carry up to 16 anti-tank missiles.

Bell OH-58D Kiowa Warrior
The ROCA Aviation received 39 OH-58D, of which 1 was lost of accident. These were purchased to replace the 6 OH-6A in helo observation units. These scout helos can also be equipped with gun pods, rocket pods, AGM-114 hellfires, and TOW missiles. Each OH-58D can carry up to 4 anti-tank missiles.

Bell/AIDC UH-1H Iroquois
AIDC locally assembled 118 UH-1H helos for the ROCA, of which 4 were lost of accidents. Prior to obtaining the AH-1W, the ROCA fitted the UH-1H with rocket pods (M260?) produced by CSIST and machineguns. A number of used UH-1H's have been donated to Paraguay and Panama.

Boeing CH-47SD Chinook
ROCA opeates 9 CH-47SD heavy lift helos. Each helo can transport up to 55 troops, or with 27,686 lbs of cargo.

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Now if someone would type up PLA assets avail for the theatre? No, the PRC is unlikely to go to war in 2008, BUT for pro-TI factions it may be a good, high-profile period to declare TI. If the ROC military wants to do a pre-emptive strike against PLA assets, please do not forget land-based AShM's and LACM's that can be launched from Kinmen and Matsu. Also, AIM-120's are not the only BVR missiles in ROCAF inventory. There's also AIM-7's, TC-2's, and MICA.

For anyone interested, here's a good source on PLA air assets:

crazyinsane105 said:

The ROC still lacks a BVR capability so they will be taking tremendous losses. My AWACs will provide consistent coverage of the air war and attacks against my naval assets would not go unpunished. I would be able to coordinate with great precision counterattacks that would make the ROC lose even more aircraft using combinations of aircraft, SAMs, and air defense destroyers. And since the ROC doesn't have a reliable BVR capability (those Aim-120's would be more useful if they weren't in Hawaii), ROC aircraft would face some huge losses. The ROC won't be able to conduct offensive operations after such massive losses and would have to conduct air defense instead.

Next, it would be time to take out Taiwan's air defense system. My side has a very capable SEAD missiles (the Kh-59 and any other future variant). Furthermore, many of Taiwan's PAC-3 batteries would be engaged trying to shoot down incoming ballistic missiles and cruise missiles which would probably number in the hundreds. Also, Taiwan would have to face the wrath of my Harpy missiles. I would continue to aggresively attack Taiwan's remaining aircraft, hit ground based radar systems with cruise missiles, and try to cripple Taiwan's air defense system using my own deadly HARMs (and I have plenty of these missiles HAHAHAHA!!!!). I would also order JH-7A fighter bombers to conduct saturated missile attacks against Taiwan's Kidd Class destroyers and other naval assets of the ROC.

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1) The US released the AIM-120C's after PLAAF started taking delivery of Su-30's & AA-12's in 2001. All 120 missiles were reported to have been delivered by 2003:




2) The ROCAF has BVR capability through AIM-7, AIM-120, MICA, and TC-2. ROCAF conducted the first successful MICA BVR test-fire (vs. drone target @57km) outside of France.

The first TC-2 BVR-capable missiles were active radar guided, later upgraded variants adds mid course guidance, passive mode, and fire and forget modes. There's also an anti-radiation vairant (like the HARM missile) of the TC-2A:


3) The ROCAF does operate 4 E-2T and 2 E-2T 2000 Hawkeye aircraft as AEW&C aircraft. They're reported to be able to track more than 2,000 targets, and guide interception of up to 40 hostile targets up to 550km. I donno if you'd qualify this as ROCAF's "AWACS" platform.

4) ROC's SAM units are under 3 different commands (!). The missile command controls 3 batteries of PAC-2 (160km range), 6 batteries of Sky Bow I (100km range) & Sky Bow II (200km range), and 20 batteries of Hawk SAM's (40km range). No PAC-3 systems have been delivered (yet). The ROCAF controls ground based Sparrow SAM's, and ROC Army has their own SAM units.

The ROC missile-defense network can intercept a limited number of missiles from the PRC side. However against a large saturated attack, it'd be impossible to defend against every incoming missile, so they'd have to select critical areas to defend and leave the others to fend for themselves.

Here's an interesting article on SAM missile range:


5) On JH-7A, according to china-military.org, PLAN aviation currently operates the following JH-7 & JH-7A divisions:
East Sea Fleet - 6th division, 16th Regiment at Shanghai Dachang & 17th REgiment at Yiwu are equipped with JH-7
South Sea Fleet - 9th Division, 27th Regiment at Ledong, equipped with JH-7A



Sinodefense web site reports XAC produced 6 prototypes, plus 12-18 JH-7's, before importing additional RR Spey engines for next bath of JH-7A's. Globalsecurity claims the PLANAF currently has ~25 JH-7 & JH-7A's in service. I think only the newer JH-7A with JL-10A PD radar can launch Kh-31 anti-radiation missiles? I donno how many JH-7A's there are in service with 27th Regiment or if older JH-7's have been ugpraded. But for a saturated attack against ROCN assets, I think the total number of JH-7/A's avail to PLANAF will be limited.

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As a side note, I noticed that in recent Taiwan invasion scenario discussions, PLAN ships equipped with HQ9 are often cited as the primary weapon against ROCAF. I'd like to note that there are currently only 2 PLAN ships (052C) are equipped with HQ9 missiles. A quick look at recent PLAN acquisitions with newer air-defense missiles, at their effective range:

Type 051C:


Currently there are only 1 x Type 051C at sea trials, and expected to be commissioned in 2006. Most likely, there's a 2nd hull currently building. The 051C ship is reported to be equipped with the RIF/S-300F air defense missile, with the following specs:

Min. target range: 7km
Max. range vs. aircraft: 90km
Max. range vs. low-flying targets (<25 meter altitude): 25km

Generally speaking, the maximum range cited for SAM system is vs. target under optimal conditions. In real world combat situations the SAM's max interception range is affected by the target's speed, altitutde, and position. The effective range vs. low flying aircraft and AShM's are much shorter than the "max range" specs.

Type 052B:


Currently the PLAN operates 2 x 052 ships, equipped with the SA-N-12/9M38 system:

The maximum effective range for this missile is often cited at 42km-50km. Other sources report the maximum effective range vs. aircraft is 38km, and vs. AShM is 20km.

Sovremenny


Currently the PLAN operates 2 Sovremenny's, with 2 more on order. The Sovremenny's air defense missile is the SA-N-7:

Killing range vs. aircraft: 25km
Killing range vs. low-flying aircraft: 18km
Killing range vs. anti-ship missiles: 12km

Type 052C:

And finally, we list the 2 x 052C's currently in PLAN service, equipped with the HQ-9 missile. The HQ-9 missile has been reported with max range of 90km to 200km. From the data provided on other SAM systems above, we can conclude that max range is not the same as effective range versus different targets at high/low altitudes.

From the data avail, PLAN only has 3 ships with long-range air defense missile systems, the 051C and 2x 052C's. Against a ROCAF aircraft armed with HF-2 missile (80km range) or Harpoons, I don't believe it''s a certainty that the PLAN ship would intercept the strike aircraft, before the aircraft reach its AShM-strike range. I think, for the PLAN, the best defense vs. ROCAF strike aircraft is still PLAAF aircraft cover.

Other PLAN ships not mentioned, I think their anti-air SAM's (HQ7?) range is too short. They may be effective vs. an incoming AShM, but lack the range to hit the strike aircraft.

utelore said:

I have launched 5 707 airbuses. it will be announced that these aircraft are taking forigners out of the ROC. these aircraft will skirt Japan then

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Just a quick note: 707's are made by Boeing (US) and not Airbus (EU). Taiwan does not own or operate any Boeing 707's.

If you're drafting civian airliners for this job, Taiwan has 2 major carriers, China Airlines and EVA Air. The current China Airlines fleet consists of:
9x Airbus A300-600R
6x Airbus A330-300 (+5 on order)
7x Airbus A340-300
12x Boeing 737-800
33x Boeing 747-400

The current EVA air fleet consists of:
10x Airbus A3309-200 (+1 on order)
9x Boeing 747-400 Combi
6x Boeing 747-400
3x Boeing 747-400F
2x Boeing 767-300ER (to be retired in 2006)
3x Boeing 777-200LR on order
2x Boeing 777-300ER (+10 on order)
14x Boeing MD-11
5x Boeing MD-90-30

After 3 days off high political conversation the US - out off Guam - stoped all Ships to and out off chinese harbours and turned them to Japan.
"Its only to safe zivil and trading ships in the conflict."
So the chinese harbours ar blocked.
The US also - out off Diego Garcia - started to enter all ships in the Indian Ozean which ar loaded to chinese buyers.
The supply situation off Petrol and Electricity in China could become critical.

all non-chinese citizens ar ordered to leave the crisis aerea.
"WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN CHINESE AFFAIRS, BUT WE HAVE TO SAVE OUR CITIZENS!" german chanceller Merkel sad.
Hundreds of zivil Aeroplanes ar chartered to evacuat these people out from Bejing, Shanghai, GZ and HK International airport.

Did Bejing accept international flights to Taiwan?
The foreign citizens have Order to wait in Taibai and Jilong (Japanese, US-Citizens), Tainan (Europeans) and Gaoxiong (all other Nations).
The Japanese fleet is going to be concentrate near Okinawa, Aussis and all other Nations (without US), which have Navy ships arround the area, ar going to Subic Bay to wait for evacuations order. They should escort evacuation ships outside of national chinese waters.

Two US CBGs ar going to patrol inside of Formosa Street, between 22' N, 118' E and 28' N, 124' E. "We have to save and support the Evacuation of non chinese Citizens out from Taiwan", Vize Adm. Potter sad.
A US amphibious evacuation fleet is going to be concentrate near Tungsha Tao Island. This fleet should collect all amphibious ships of western pacific and indian ozean.

Some chinese fishermans told, they was controlled by big, non-diving US-Subs near Shantou, at 30' N, 50 miles east of Zhoushan Dao, at 122' E and 35' N and at 38' N, 123' E - so the chinese goverment know, that there ar US-SSNs in front of chinese harbours.

What in the, seizing oil breaks the Geneva Convention.....
and ordering non-Chinese citizens? How can you do that when they are not your possession but China's? And non-Chinese? A-hem. :nono:
That's pretty racial there........

And please, people, declare your possessions and role first.
(Has this thread died?)

sumdud said:

And non-Chinese? A-hem. :nono:
That's pretty racial there........

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the non chinese citizens ar french, british, german, italian, brazil, portugese, american, canadian, aussie ... and so on people, the order is coming out of there governement.
I am only reporting outside from china and taiwan.

Todays news:
CNN reports a lot of tumults in taiwanese airports. "I wanna go home" a 16yrs old girl is crying in the camera. "Mom, where is my mom?" a 3 yrs child is seeking her mother there.
The president of US declared in the oval office:
"The UN ar not able to act. We'r saving americans everywhere!"
Embeded journalist of the US-fleet show pix of impeccable working. They ar very proud about the quick reaction of US-forces (to save americans) after chinas 72-hour ultimatum.
Only WASHINGTON POSTs headline "What did the CIA knows before?" seems to be a little bit critical.

i order all of my mkk2s and jh-7 along with h-6s, to fly over taiwan. they immediately begin bombing any runway in sight, including larrge highways. since the raid takes place at midnight, there arnt any cars on the roads. by morning, almost the entire taiwanese airfleet(civilian and military) is grounded. the only launch places are mountain runway strips.

i wonder how the taiwanese air commander will react...

MIGleader said:

... they immediately begin bombing any runway in sight, including larrge highways. since the raid takes place at midnight, there arnt any cars on the roads. ...

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midnight in Taiwan time is 05,oo afternoon WETime is 11:00 lunchtime USA East and 08:00 morining USA pacific. Its best news-time in USA and EU, all are awaik.
CNN is mixing the reports off tumults in taiwanese airports ("I wanna go home" a 16yrs old girl is crying in the camera. "Mom, where is my mom?" a 3 yrs child is seeking her mother there) actually with the sound of sirenes, lightflash and thunder (bomb droping).

....i wonder how the taiwanese air commander will react

To scezpan:
Nevermind, I thought you meant people with Chinese nationality but not ethnicity.

But you are America right? Either way, you can't order every Non Chinese-citizen out of China....
But wouldn't the News come at 7:00PM in America? People in Taiwan are asleep and so there shouldn't be anyone reporting the event right then...

But still, we need to report roles and assets first.....