Miscellaneous News

In4ser

Junior Member
Ohhh Yeah they can, but the usual suspect are going to cry fault, in fact they are already complaining. I told you what will happen when the low birth rate hysteria go out of control, someone has to carry the burden of civilization, that will be the solution. If this hysteria continues countries are going from incentives to punishment like taxing the childless and single childless adults to pay for other people children, there is going to be a lot of pressure for single women and specially young women. This what these Social Science graduates demographers don't tell to people.

China is investing a lot in automation and AI to account for future population if this hysteria takes place and they have more than anticipated children that investment has to be reduced to take into account for future jobs.


No humans are not rats.
The biggest limiters of population growth has always been calories and health, a large population and drop in calorie intake? I don't care how high your birth rate is, your populations numbers are going down and fast. A killer virus appear and becomes endemic killing hundred of thousands per year, that is a drag in population growth, especially if the disease kill mostly children. Africa was a big example, huge birth rates but the population growth was limited by famine and diseases. But with trade, modern agriculture and modern healthcare the continent has put more people in 2 decades that in the last 100 years before combine. If the heavens forbid
something cause a deficit in calorie intake those population numbers could go down pretty fast.
Another example. The video says South Korea is going to have a lot elderly population, that the elderly is going to surpass the young by a lot, the reality is that if the healthcare system get overwhelmed because lack of funding or too many patients, they are going to become a young country really fast, they are likely to see the biggest drop in life expectancy in their history.

In others words what you are seeing today is something that has never happen in history, for the first time in history most women in this planet can decide when, how, how many, where AND even with who to have children. Feminist are going to tell you that the biggest win for women was voting or entering the workforce, I would say, personally, the biggest win for women was the invention of reproductive healthcare. Basically liberating them from early and unwanted motherhood which was the main driver of high birth rates in the past.
If anything, you are proving my point, that demographic decline is near impossible to avoid because of the achievements and advantages of modernity, especially for women. Asking them to sacrifice it all for the fertility rate is unreasonable. I'm not asking China to become a totalitarian state to maintain its birthrate, and have numerous times had to consider, "what must be sacrificed for it?"

However, everyone should realize that Freedom and Responsibility are often opposing ideologies. The West wants you to believe liberty is the end-all and be-all of society, but because of it, the people have become weak and degenerate. Yet one person's utopia can often be another's dystopia. It's not a binary choice between the two, but about harmonizing for the best of both worlds.

My point is to emphasize the facts, so people are fully aware of the gravity of the situation. Whether the facts are acceptable is up to you to decide. I have already made my peace with China's inevitable decline, but I've also lived with most of my youth with China's humble obscurity and have been blessed to watch its ascendance. That's life, and like everything else, it must face entropic forces.
 

doggydogdo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just because you have a greater margin for error does not mean that it will develop a solution, assuming there is even one. If anything it might prolong the malaise of the decline and allow a smaller and less densely populated country like Japan or Korea to recover and adapt much more quickly from their fall. The large size of the Qing Empire made it difficult to enact reforms and modernize while smaller nations were able to change more quickly, like small start-ups vs big conglomerates with technological shifts.
China's policy making is much more flexible than Japan or Korea's with much more levers to pull. Also, Korea and Japan's super low fertility problem started much earlier than China's. And China is already developing a system for
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tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
If anything, you are proving my point, that demographic decline is near impossible to avoid because of the achievements and advantages of modernity, especially for women. I'm not asking China to become a totalitarian state to maintain its birthrate and have numerous times to consider what it must sacrifice for it?
That is what the hysteria part enters and is not just China is worldwide. You don't to be a "totalitarian state" once the population hysteria kicks in.
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What is going to happen when the states in the US with strict reproductive control ban rules have huge population increases compared to the more urban and wealthier states? What is going to become the norm in the US?
 

In4ser

Junior Member
China's policy making is much more flexible than Japan or Korea's with much more levers to pull. Also, Korea and Japan's super low fertility problem started much earlier than China's. And China is already developing a system for
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Not flexible enough, seeing how long it took to repeal the One Child Policy. As a larger and more populated country, China is like a large cruise liner, it's hard to implement change once momentum has been built up. That's why its national policies are often broad and vague lest it become pigeonholeed by a mistake. It's tectonic when things go right, but also when things go wrong.

By the way, China already has a lower fertility rate than Japan because of how fast the problem is accelerating.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not flexible enough, seeing how long it took to repeal the One Child Policy. As a larger and more populated country, China is like a large cruise ship, it must be broad and vague in its policy lest it become pigeonholeed by a mistake.

By the way, China already has a lower fertility rate than Japan because of how fast its acelerating.
I think is 1.50 a bit higher.
They still put an entire country of babies in a single year.

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I read the other day that China was forcing an overcapacity of AI in the world. Translation... the US can't compete. Who else has AI where China squeezed them out? No one. Just like the overcapacity narrative was all about how the world, aka the West, can't compete against China. The West is demanding China hold back on their AI that the West is not using.

Don't be surprised that Sam Altman was paid to say that about India. Indians do that... pay industry "leaders" to say India is up there when they ain't. The only people moved by what others say are Indians. That's why they want it said. Jack Welch said that in a trip to India. Jeff Bezos also said it and now Sam Altman. Not too long ago he said India can try to build their own AI model but flat out said they were going to fail. Now all of the sudden Indians are going to listen to him?

Trump will tack on tariffs because he thinks he can use them in negotiations. Look at TikTok. Trump said if China sells TikTok to an American he might remove some tariffs. Which ones? The ones he just tacked on? He removes it and he'll tack on more to get something else. This way the US doesn't really give up anything. Trump just said he's the one who ultimately gets to decide who in the US gets to buy TikTok. Well then why is expecting China to sell when he makes that decision? That's why no negotiation is going on over TikTok because China isn't talking about it. If the US doesn't need TikTok, then just let die and they can cheer how they think China lost a lot of money. But no... they want it. They need it.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Maybe we can have an artificial womb, but that has its problems, like what kind of society will China be if it starts manufacturing babies on an industrial level with the State as the only real parent? After all, even in that solution, it is the state that wants kids, not necessarily the biological donors.
This is exactly what's going to happen in the future, like it or not. And there won't be any donors, the embryos that go into the artificial wombs will be manufactured as well; their genomes will be designed by AIs and made using synthetic biology tools now being developed on bacteria and yeasts.

As for what kind of society China will be when the state sets the birth rate like it sets the interest rate? It'll be one without the demographic problems people here whine endlessly about.
I have already made my peace with China's inevitable decline
There will be no decline.
My point is to emphasize the facts, so people are fully aware of the gravity of the situation. Whether the facts are acceptable is up to you to decide.
Only the weak surrender to entropic forces. If the situation is as grave as you think, then the obvious technological solution I sketched out is inevitable.
 
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In4ser

Junior Member
This is exactly what's going to happen in the future, like it or not. And there won't be any donors, the embryos that go into the artificial wombs will be manufactured as well; their genomes will be designed by AIs and made using synthetic biology tools now being developed on bacteria and yeasts.

As for what kind of society China will be? It'll be one without the demographic problems people here whine endlessly about.
That sounds like a eugenics hell that countless Sci-Fi novels warn about. Hope this new generation won't be created using a similar criterion for intelligence, strength, and beauty, as it would make their genetic makeup lack any real diversity. Sure, they'll all be perfect (in the same way) and become easy targets for genetic disease, both natural and artificial. Progress is about competition, mistakes, and destruction as much as it is about harmony, success, and creation. They co-exist together as night and day. To destroy the natural order is to try to establish absolute order, which is the closest thing to true oblivion.
 
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