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texx1

Junior Member
Sleepyjam said:
Its pretty naive to believe SA would never betray the US considering that they had to be sanctioned for the assassination of the US based activist and that they had teamed up with the Russians to destroy US oil production. And recently prioritzed oil production for China and vowing to oppose interfere in the internal affair of other nations.

Its also not the first time EU does something that is against its own interest so that line of reason is meaningless. For all that supposed “eagerness” the sanctions themselves are so weak.
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The context is important. As long as US military has primacy in middle east, Saudis won't make fundamental policy changes that seriously harm US interests (abandoning petrol dollar for instance) in fear of Saddam-style regime change. Instead, they will make nice diplomatic statements. I also implicitly made the argument that Saudis could change its tone when Chinese military power in the area could at least rival American.

You are missing the highly symbolic nature of the EU sanctions. It's an official endorsement of the made-up "genocide" charge. Not to mention the lockstep behaviors of western nations invoke the humiliation of Qing dynasty by the eight nation power. If PRC didn't retaliate strongly enough, uncomfortable parallels would probably be made.
 
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Sleepyjam

Junior Member
Registered Member
texx1 said:
The context is important. As long as US military has primacy in middle east, Saudis won't make fundamental policy changes that seriously harm US interests (abandoning petrol dollar for instance) in fear of Saddam-style regime change. Instead, they will make nice diplomatic statements. I also implicitly made the argument that Saudis could change its tone when Chinese military power in the area could at least rival American.

You are missing the highly symbolic nature of the EU sanctions. It's an official endorsement of the made-up "genocide" charge. Not to mention the lockstep behaviors of western nations invoke the humiliation of Qing dynasty by the eight nation power. If PRC didn't retaliate strongly enough, uncomfortable parallels would probably be made.
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What is serious harm? Is seriously harming US oil industry not serious enough? First you said “to betray“ now it’s “seriously harm” that’s a long gap with arbitrary definition. Those nice statements have symbolic value and I don’t pretend to know how trustworthy they really are but it’s certainly against US interests.

How does that contradict with what I said about EU being incompetent? It’s symbolic because they are afraid of doing it seriously so much for their supposed eagerness.
 
Temstar

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
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“The prospects for the CAI’s ratification will depend on how the situation evolves,” he explained. “The ratification process cannot be separated from the evolving dynamics of the wider EU-China relationship.”
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Lol, you know you're not supposed to tell the other team you're playing chicken just to try to get a better deal. China is just going to tell you the time honoured rock solid fool proof negotiation terms:

爱签签，不签滚
 
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texx1

Junior Member
Sleepyjam said:
What is serious harm? Is seriously harming US oil industry not serious enough? First you said “to betray“ now it’s “seriously harm” that’s a long gap with arbitrary definition. Those nice statements have symbolic value and I don’t pretend to know how trustworthy they really are but it’s certainly against US interests.

How does that contradict with what I said about EU being incompetent? It’s symbolic because they are afraid of doing it seriously so much for their supposed eagerness.
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I gave you an example already. I believe petrol dollar to be a fundamental pillar of US power and Saudi Arabia plays the most important role due to its significant share of production. US oil industry is simply not at the same level of importance.

Incompetence is a matter of perspective. Is it incompetence for EU to use sanctions to show western unity and curry favours with the new biden's administration? Is it incompetence to use sanctions for European politicians to build their own domestic support? Eagerness is demonstrated by sanctions came just short time after concluding a highly advantageous investment treaty for EU.
 
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Sleepyjam

Junior Member
Registered Member
texx1 said:
I gave you an example already. I believe petrol dollar to be a fundamental pillar of US power and Saudi Arabia plays the most important role due to its significant share of production. US oil industry is simply not at the same level of importance.

Incompetence is a matter of perspective. Is it incompetence for EU to use sanctions to show western unity and curry favours with the new biden's administration? Is it incompetence to use sanctions for European politicians to build their own domestic support? Eagerness is demonstrated by sanctions came just short time after concluding a highly advantageous investment treaty for EU.
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That’s your arbitrary definition not to mention moving the goal post from betrayal and US interests.

Yes it’s incompetence, they got sanctioned more sevenly in retaliation, their business interests with China are now in danger and what did they get from Biden? Pursuing personally gains while sacrifing long term interests of the nation is a pretty classic example of incompetence. It’s not a new issue it took them a long while just to start with the symbolic sanctions.
 
Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
plawolf said:
That is why the CIA is pushing this ‘genocide’ nonsense. There is zero chance of anyone moronic enough to go to war with China over this, so what’s the goal? Well it’s economic isolation like the target boycotts being promoted by the western companies.

Their aim is to sabotage the economic development in Xinjiang to keep it poor so their agents and cat paws can blame that on poor management or discrimination by Beijing to whip up discontent and unrest. Or failing that, briefcases of money buy a lot more ‘loyalty’ when the locals are direct poor so they get more value for money.
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Precisely.

To follow up on this. Because of the sanctions and boycotts on Chinese companies for employing Uighur labour. They are impoverishing the Uighur populace. The very people they claim to want to help. Because of this, some Uighurs have to move Eastward to the bigger cities to find other job opportunities. And these so-called human rights A-holes are calling it as yet another form of genocide.

The US removed ETIM from the terrorist list in the last days of the Trump presidency. It may not be the most important development back then. But now its getting clearer what the US and friends wanted to achieve. They hoped that their economic punishment of the Uighurs will condemn them back into desperate poverty. Such as populace are perfect to recruit terrorists. They hope to achieve a kind of pseodo Arab-spring in Xinjiang. Mainly to derail China's BRI. But also with the convenient addition of separatism, terrorism, and more excuse to intervene into China. This is beyond plain evil.

Very fortunately for China. They have managed to complete their anti-poverty and deradicalization programs by 2020. So, even the most desperate Uighurs can still find opportunities for employment within China. And China introduced the dual-circulation economic plan in the nick of time. So I foresee that the hardship of the Uighur people will be temporary at best.

The long term problem will be in the West and Turkey. They are the largest habitat for Uighur terrorists. Right now most of these Uighur terrorists are fighting in Syria. One day they will return to Turkey and the West when the Syrian war winds down. China is too smart and ruthless to allow these guys a backdoor back into the country. Then these guys are gonna stay longer and longer in the West and Turkey. Eventually, as with any terrorists, they will turn on their backers.
 
Sardaukar20

Sardaukar20

Captain
Registered Member
Kaeshmiri said:
Its started happening. Wont be long before Nike gets booted out from all online platforms like H&M.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374902540513341442
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This is excellent and very important. These foreign businesses are improverishing the very Uighurs they claim to care about. This boycott is not only about defending businesses in Xinjiang. This is also the Chinese people's way of standing in solidarity with their Uighur brothers and sisters whose livelihoods are impacted.

China should frame this narrative. That Uighurs are as Chinese as any ethnicities in China. That any foreign business that dares to hurt the Uighurs, they will hurt all 1.4bil people of China. Hence they will receive punishment from all of China.
 
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texx1

Junior Member
Sleepyjam said:
That’s your arbitrary definition not to mention moving the goal post from betrayal and US interests.
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We are on an online forum. Most arguments and terms are arbitrary. Do you understand betraying US interest? as in Saudis switching to RMB from US dollars when pricing crude (thus abandoning petrol dollar). This will be seen as a betrayal by US since it harms US interests.

Sleepyjam said:
Yes it’s incompetence, they got sanctioned more sevenly in retaliation, their business interests with China are now in danger and what did they get from Biden? Pursuing personally gains while sacrifing long term interests of the nation is a pretty classic example of incompetence. It’s not a new issue it took them a long while just to start with the symbolic sanctions.
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Different nations have their own calculation of what actions best serve national interests. From EU public, they are mostly in support of the sanctions. As for EU business interests in China, we will see how strong is PRC's retaliation in the coming weeks. Let's hope it's not a repeat of the NBA boycott.
 
A

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Sardaukar20 said:
Precisely.

To follow up on this. Because of the sanctions and boycotts on Chinese companies for employing Uighur labour. They are impoverishing the Uighur populace. The very people they claim to want to help. Because of this, some Uighurs have to move Eastward to the bigger cities to find other job opportunities. And these so-called human rights A-holes are calling it as yet another form of genocide.

The US removed ETIM from the terrorist list in the last days of the Trump presidency. It may not be the most important development back then. But now its getting clearer what the US and friends wanted to achieve. They hoped that their economic punishment of the Uighurs will condemn them back into desperate poverty. Such as populace are perfect to recruit terrorists. They hope to achieve a kind of pseodo Arab-spring in Xinjiang. Mainly to derail China's BRI. But also with the convenient addition of separatism, terrorism, and more excuse to intervene into China. This is beyond plain evil.

Very fortunately for China. They have managed to complete their anti-poverty and deradicalization programs by 2020. So, even the most desperate Uighurs can still find opportunities for employment within China. And China introduced the dual-circulation economic plan in the nick of time. So I foresee that the hardship of the Uighur people will be temporary at best.

The long term problem will be in the West and Turkey. They are the largest habitat for Uighur terrorists. Right now most of these Uighur terrorists are fighting in Syria. One day they will return to Turkey and the West when the Syrian war winds down. China is too smart and ruthless to allow these guys a backdoor back into the country. Then these guys are gonna stay longer and longer in the West and Turkey. Eventually, as with any terrorists, they will turn on their backers.
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@Sardaukar20 nice post as always and another thing how can they return to China? via Afghanistan? they have to pass thru SCO member countries and Russian. If they plan to use Afghanistan as a base of operation, the Taliban and Pakistan will surely not allow that to happen. I now see the value of SCO with the current Alliances between Russia and China, it will provide the security arrangement within the region.
 
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