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Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
You could have made an effort to ACTUALLY READ A BOOK OR TWO on this topic rather than simply regurgitating spurious and specious comments from YouTube, websites like Urz etc..that would obviously never give credit least of all context about the Sino-Vietnamese BORDER CONFLICT.

The PLA leadership was certainly underwhelmed and disappointed by the performance of its forces that attacked into Vietnam but it nevertheless successfully managed to enter Vietnam and achieved it's stated objective of entering deep into Vietnamese territory and then withdrew back into China once this was accomplished.

Put it simply, the Chinese achieved it's stated STRATEGIC OBJECTIVE which was to teach Vietnam a lesson NOT CONQUER OR OCCUPY (that's a western idiotic nonsense) and BLED VIETNAM'S ECONOMY DRY while also proving to the Vietnamese leadership that their patron saint at the time which was the U.S.S.R. was not in a position to help them fight China in any meaningful way short of nuclear war. Plus, the Chinese attack on Vietnam was also a showcase to the U.S. that China is a willing and capable strategic ally against what was then seen as SOVIET UNION EXPANSIONIST POLICY. China managed to convinced ASEAN member states including your country, the PH that China will help assist and defend against any Vietnamese expansionist ambitions in the region.

Do you even know why Vietnam and China fought? What was their relative weaknesses and strengths? The massive FINANCIAL, HUMAN, AND MILITARY assistance it gave and provided to the Vietnamese efforts, first against the French colonizer, and then eventually against the U.S.

What's the Philippines claim to fame in the realm of warfare, battles? Please don't event try to bring up the Moro, and other Islamic/Muslim groups in the Philippines since they don't consider themselves "Filipino" when the very name itself is taken literally from A KING OF SPAIN LOL...Sit down.
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Furhtermore:

"From the time the PRC was founded, Chinese leaders had shown a proclivity to use carefully chosen military force in territorial disputes with other countries. The PLA had been employed to uphold claims of territorial sovereignty against India in 1962 and against the Soviet Union in 1969. The PLA General Staff continued this tradition in proposing action against Vietnam. The General Staff’s proposal was carefully designed to avoid escalation lest it threaten the PRC’s economic progress. The PLA targeted just one isolated Vietnamese regiment at Trung Khanh, a border county adjacent to Guangxi Province, to teach Vietnam a military lesson for its misbehavior. Zhou Deli, the chief of staff of the Guangzhou Military Region, recalled that the General Staff believed that Trung Khanh’s isolated geographic location would allow the PLA to separate the Vietnamese outpost from any reinforcements and easily wipe it out."

China’s 1979 invasion of Vietnam can be divided into three phases. During the first phase (17–25 February), Chinese forces broke through the Vietnamese first line of resistance and captured the provincial capitals of Cao Bang and Lao Cai and a key border town, Dong Dang, the gateway to Lang Son. The second phase (26 February–5 March), consisted of a full-scale Chinese assault on Lang Son in the east and additional military engagements in the areas of Sa Pa and Phong Tho in northwestern Vietnam. The final phase(early to mid-March) saw a continued mopping-up campaign against sporadic enemy resistance while Chinese forces razed military and economic installations before withdrawing from Vietnam on 16 March.

The Chinese invasion consisted of nine field armies, three regional divisions, three artillery divisions, two antiaircraft artillery divisions, one railroad engineering division, and five engineering regiments—more than half a million combatants. Unlike Mao, Deng Xiaoping did not interfere in daily battlefield operations by giving detailed instructions from the national capital far removed from the fighting front. He did, however, spend a few hours every day in the General Staff war room reviewing battlefield reports. 1 The Chinese leader believed that only if the PLA mounted a successful operation would Western nations believe that China was a reliable friend in their struggle against Soviet expansionism. At the same time, a PLA victory would send a strong signal to Hanoi and Moscow not to undermine China’s security.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
You could have made an effort to ACTUALLY READ A BOOK OR TWO on this topic rather than simply regurgitating spurious and specious comments from YouTube, websites like Urz etc..that would obviously never give credit least of all context about the Sino-Vietnamese BORDER CONFLICT.

The PLA leadership was certainly underwhelmed and disappointed by the performance of its forces that attacked into Vietnam but it nevertheless successfully managed to enter Vietnam and achieved it's stated objective of entering deep into Vietnamese territory and then withdrew back into China once this was accomplished.

Put it simply, the Chinese achieved it's stated STRATEGIC OBJECTIVE which was to teach Vietnam a lesson NOT CONQUER OR OCCUPY (that's a western idiotic nonsense) and BLED VIETNAM'S ECONOMY DRY while also proving to the Vietnamese leadership that their patron saint at the time which was the U.S.S.R. was not in a position to help them fight China in any meaningful way short of nuclear war. Plus, the Chinese attack on Vietnam was also a showcase to the U.S. that China is a willing and capable strategic ally against what was then seen as SOVIET UNION EXPANSIONIST POLICY. China managed to convinced ASEAN member states including your country, the PH that China will help assist and defend against any Vietnamese expansionist ambitions in the region.

Do you even know why Vietnam and China fought? What was their relative weaknesses and strengths? The massive FINANCIAL, HUMAN, AND MILITARY assistance it gave and provided to the Vietnamese efforts, first against the French colonizer, and then eventually against the U.S.

What's the Philippines claim to fame in the realm of warfare, battles? Please don't event try to bring up the Moro, and other Islamic/Muslim groups in the Philippines since they don't consider themselves "Filipino" when the very name itself is taken literally from A KING OF SPAIN LOL...Sit down.
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Lastly:

Screenshot_20240610_200940.jpg
95In Chinese Military Strategy in the Third Indochina War, Edward O’Dowd argues the Chinese conducted an ineffective military operation against Lang Son. His criticism covers the PLA’s artillery doctrine, personnel system, and logistics system. 96 The Chinese offered a different assessment. The 55th Army’s after-action report admitted that 1,271 Chinese troops had been killed and 3,779 wounded at Dong Dang and Lang Son. In addition, thirty tanks and thirty artillery pieces had been lost. However, the Chinese credited themselves with having inflicted 10,401 casualties on the Vietnamese defenders, most of them from the PAVN’s 3rd Division and the local units under its command along with a small force of the PAVN’s 327th Division. This number did not include those killed by gasoline, explosives, and flamethrowers in the tunnel complex of the French Fort and the caves at Lang Son. The 55th Army also recorded the destruction of forty-four PAVN tanks and six armored vehicles and the capture of a significant number of weapons, including 3 tanks, 3 armored vehicles, 29 trucks, 32 motorcycles, 99 artillery pieces, 2,200 small arms, 17,000 artillery rounds, and tons of other military supplies. Prior to withdrawing from Lang Son, the 55th destroyed 2,920 military and public facilities, literally turning the city into a ruin. 97 General Xu’s forces returned to China convinced that the combination of artillery fire and fierce ground combat at Lang Son had taught Vietnam a harsh and unforgettable “lesson.”

From the BOOK: DENG XIAOPING'S LONG WAR
 
Z

zhangjim

Junior Member
Registered Member
Index said:
China already proved it the first time around no?

Vietnam was curbstomped with horrific casualties at minimal losses for China. The goal was never annexation of Vietnam, just the takeover of the disputed border and quite literally to demilitarize an oversized military Vietnam had radicalized after the US-Vietnam war.

The idea was that a military and material loss would undermine Viet confidence in the pro-USSR faction, and at the same time limit the influence of the pro-western southern Vietnamese remnant.

It did succeed in turning Vietnam back to a friendly or at least friendly neutral country, although the southern faction was purged much later and probably not directly due to the war but rather later political plots.
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One view is that this serves two purposes：
1、Projecting a weak image of China as "big but not strong" can reduce public concern about the risk of future war: ”we just need to get serious and defeat them with good and advanced weapons“.
2、They always feel that they must seize some territory, or immediately force the opponent to sign a peace agreement, or immediately allow the opponent's regime to be replaced by a puppet regime, in order to call it a victory.
 
doggydogdo

doggydogdo

Junior Member
Registered Member
Index said:
It did succeed in turning Vietnam back to a friendly or at least friendly neutral country, although the southern faction was purged much later and probably not directly due to the war but rather later political plots.
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No, border clashed existed up until the collapse of the USSR where Vietnam realized its existence was in danger and needed a friendly China.
 
C

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
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White supremacy has a price, The Anglo board CEO was obviously not happy about a Chinese person offering to invest in his company so he went to australian intelligence services, in reality franchises of the CIA. Today, first day of trading after a public holiday and shares of the company are down almost 10%.

Maikeru said:
4 US college instructors stabbed in Jilin:

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Not many details yet but wingnuts on X already calling on State Department to elevate travel advisory for China.
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i expect the USG and American people to understand, after all, Asian people are pogromed and murdered on a daily basis in the United States.
 
I

Index

Senior Member
Registered Member
zhangjim said:
One view is that this serves two purposes：
1、Projecting a weak image of China as "big but not strong" can reduce public concern about the risk of future war: ”we just need to get serious and defeat them with good and advanced weapons“.
2、They always feel that they must seize some territory, or immediately force the opponent to sign a peace agreement, or immediately allow the opponent's regime to be replaced by a puppet regime, in order to call it a victory.
Click to expand...
What exactly are you talking about and who is this "they" you're describing, none of your post makes any sense.
doggydogdo said:
No, border clashed existed up until the collapse of the USSR where Vietnam realized its existence was in danger and needed a friendly China.
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At a very low rate, because with a lot of the Vietnamese army straight up dead, it would never be a major player in SEA anymore, neither would the Vietnamese economy/civil society, with the illusion of Vietnamese overconfidence caused by the victory against USA crushed.
 
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