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D

Deleted member 24525

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60%, A MAJORITY of Jews in Israel, are descendant of Jews who had already been living in the middle east for literal milenia prior to the founding of Israel, and were driven to drop everything, abandon their property, and flee to the not-yet-official Jewish state in order to escape ethnic cleansing by Arab muslims. These large scale cleansings were in major part inspired by the Nazis.
I really cannot emphasize this enough because it totally reframes the ethnic context of this war away from one between Arabs and a group living in Europe with a distant connection to Israel to a conflict between Arabs and a persecuted minority group primarily hailing from Arab countries themselves.

This immediately dispells accusations of Israel somehow being a primarily European or settler project, and for that reason Hamas and their supporters do everything possible to obfuscate and ignore it.

While we're on the topic it is important to note that a common claim among Hamas and their supporters is that Israel is an American client totally dependent on military aid and that it will collapse the second that aid stops. This is politically essential because it gives Israel's enemies reason to keep fighting what would otherwise be a transparently pointless struggle. However, it is historically false and empirically ridiculous. Israel decisively defeated the first two Arab invasion attempts with functionally zero foreign aid, and even today Americans aid makes up only 15% of the IDFs budget. Nuclear weapons aside, even if America demanded Israel pay for everything, it would be very much within the state's capacity to do, it would just require a modest tax increase.
 
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aqh

Junior Member
Registered Member
Fukyama end of history is the saddest cope in the world - especially when his own government has a 50% chance of becoming a dictatorship atp.

I genuinely feel bad for him after what happened with mental orange man during January 6. Probably curled up in a ball and started crying to himself.

I mean he did contribute to the neocons cause by living in la la land pretending every country in the world would become a Jeffersonian democracy.

He is the perfect epitome of the 110 iq midwit liberal. The types who gobbles up books on ""the end of democracy", think Ziehan is an intellectual and foreign policy books about protecting "democracies" (code for helping white ppl as the US has no issue toppling democracies when they oppose US interest like in Latin America).
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's pretty straightforward, I'll start with the most important.

1. 60%, A MAJORITY of Jews in Israel, are descendant of Jews who had already been living in the middle east for literal milenia prior to the founding of Israel, and were driven to drop everything, abandon their property, and flee to the not-yet-official Jewish state in order to escape ethnic cleansing by Arab muslims. These large scale cleansings were in major part inspired by the Nazis.

2. Arab states announced their intention to invade Israel and kill its entire Jewish population BEFORE the large scale expulsion of the Palestinian population had actually happened. In other words, the nakhba, the very event that the Arab states cite as justification for their attempted genocide, did not actually happen until they had already openly declared that genocidal intent. I will leave the implication for you to draw.

3. Many Arab leaders openly praised the third Reich and went out of their way to establish good relations. This includes sending volunteer fighters to fight in the SS once the Germans started accepting foreign volunteers late in the war to make up for a lack of their own, and there was no shortage of Arab volunteers. Additionally, Arab officers cooperated and trained under Nazi officers as part of a military education program for the fledgling Arab states, and many of these officers would become the generals who lead the Arab armies against Israel in the first three Arab invasion attempts.

3. Arab muslims built a mosque on top of the holiest place in Judaism and claim it has having always been theirs, and any Jewish attempts at greater control as an unacceptable encroachment. This is despite the first temple having been built over 1000 years before al aqsa, and the fact that the IDF wanted to destroy it during the first Arab Israeli war but was ordered not to by Israeli leadership.

4. If you read the Quran, it is very clear that Jews are explicitly viewed as an especially evil and inferior ethnicity from the standpoint of Muhammad, and there are several passages that call for their total extermination. Arab states have always just tolerated Jews at best, with them often turning a blind eye to periodic pogroms and massacres of the same kind as those experiences by Jews in eastern Europe.

5. The Palestinian side has flatly refused any kind of peace or land deal whatsoever, even relatively favorable ones like that offered at camp David where they would have been able to retain the whole of Gaza, the west bank, and east Jerusalem in exchange for peace.

5. Gaza was not always a living hell under blockade. Economic conditions were vastly better prior to Hamas rising to power, yet the population there chose to elect them anyway, despite warnings from the Israeli government that a blockade would be instated if they did. This blockade was instated because Hamas is an organization that has a very clearly stated intent to indiscriminately kill Israel's entire Jewish population in its founding charter.

6. Arabs accuse Israel of being a Jewish ethnostate even though 20% of its citizens are Arab Muslims with full civil rights.
1. But the initial leaders are Ashkenazi from Europe so that is the nature of the state.

2. Says here that fighting between settlers and local Palestinians predated the expulsion from Arab lands.


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3. Romans destroyed the temple, not Muslims.

4. If we go by what people wrote and says then classical American author Jack London whose name is on awards and buildings wrote a fantasy manifesto against Chinese. Don't forget Douglas MacArthur either. Yet do we go around calling everyone an anti Asian racist?

5. Imperial Japan also offered to merely take Manchuria if Chiang surrendered.

6. So basically election interference via threats. Imagine if China threatened to increase support to North Korea if South Korea elected Yoon, or threatened to confiscate Taiwanese property in China if Taiwan elected DPP. China would be seen as an insane clown country.

The more you explain the worse it sounds.
 

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's pretty straightforward, I'll start with the most important.

1. 60%, A MAJORITY of Jews in Israel, are descendant of Jews who had already been living in the middle east for literal milenia prior to the founding of Israel, and were driven to drop everything, abandon their property, and flee to the not-yet-official Jewish state in order to escape ethnic cleansing by Arab muslims. These large scale cleansings were in major part inspired by the Nazis.

2. Arab states announced their intention to invade Israel and kill its entire Jewish population BEFORE the large scale expulsion of the Palestinian population had actually happened. In other words, the nakhba, the very event that the Arab states cite as justification for their attempted genocide, did not actually happen until they had already openly declared that genocidal intent. I will leave the implication for you to draw.

3. Many Arab leaders openly praised the third Reich and went out of their way to establish good relations. This includes sending volunteer fighters to fight in the SS once the Germans started accepting foreign volunteers late in the war to make up for a lack of their own, and there was no shortage of Arab volunteers. Additionally, Arab officers cooperated and trained under Nazi officers as part of a military education program for the fledgling Arab states, and many of these officers would become the generals who lead the Arab armies against Israel in the first three Arab invasion attempts.

3. Arab muslims built a mosque on top of the holiest place in Judaism and claim it has having always been theirs, and any Jewish attempts at greater control as an unacceptable encroachment. This is despite the first temple having been built over 1000 years before al aqsa, and the fact that the IDF wanted to destroy it during the first Arab Israeli war but was ordered not to by Israeli leadership.

4. If you read the Quran, it is very clear that Jews are explicitly viewed as an especially evil and inferior ethnicity from the standpoint of Muhammad, and there are several passages that call for their total extermination. Arab states have always just tolerated Jews at best, with them often turning a blind eye to periodic pogroms and massacres of the same kind as those experiences by Jews in eastern Europe.

5. The Palestinian side has flatly refused any kind of peace or land deal whatsoever, even relatively favorable ones like that offered at camp David where they would have been able to retain the whole of Gaza, the west bank, and east Jerusalem in exchange for peace.

5. Gaza was not always a living hell under blockade. Economic conditions were vastly better prior to Hamas rising to power, yet the population there chose to elect them anyway, despite warnings from the Israeli government that a blockade would be instated if they did. This blockade was instated because Hamas is an organization that has a very clearly stated intent to indiscriminately kill Israel's entire Jewish population in its founding charter.

6. Arabs accuse Israel of being a Jewish ethnostate even though 20% of its citizens are Arab Muslims with full civil rights.


I don't think it matters how many percentage of Israelis were born from local population. The truth is the reason Israel exists is because European-Euro settled(US) power and dominance over the middle-east and weakness of the muslims. Europeans first conquered and colonized middle-east from the Ottomans and then imposed their power, which allowed the creation of Israel and led to European Jewish settlers to come and create such a state. Now it is european/Euro settled money, tech, protection that ensures Israel continues to survive.

So, the anger of Muslims and Arabs is the same anger the Cristians and Europeans felt when Muslims ruled spain and the Christians were absolutely determined to kick them out. That's why Reconquista became such a unifying project. It took them centuries but they never lost the determination to complete reconquista.

The same determination exist in the minds of Muslims, who consider the existance of Israel a continued indication of their weakness. That 400 million muslims in the Middle-east cannot kick out Israel with 9 million people just because they are not strong and united enough. And it also fuels anger against the West because they see that the battle against Israel is not just a battle against this small country but against Interference, hegemony of the West.

All the propaganda of Morality of who is right, who is wrong, who is occupying, who is not does not matter. it all comes down to power and advancement.

When muslims are strong enough and West is too weak or distracted by other challenges like China for example, Muslims will eventually conquer that land and end a non-muslim israel. Its just a matter of Demographics and trend of the global south Getting educated, industrialized and catching up with the west.

Just look at what happened to Armenians in Nagorno Karabakh. They were in control of that land for centuries. But It took them one week to migrate to Armenia when Azerbaijan won. It might be a similar scenario when Israelis also migrate to Europe and US if they lose to Muslims. They will probably flee out of fear of what will happen regardless of whatever positive statements muslims give.

This is a war of Civilizations, Religions and Nationalism. Morality is just performance to influence people's to support or oppose certain sides.
 
D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
But the initial leaders are Ashkenazi from Europe so that is the nature of the state.
This is transparently deranged. You cannot judge an entire country by the composition of a handful of state elites. How do you react when westerners do that to China?
. Says here that fighting between settlers and local Palestinians predated the expulsion from Arab lands
Okay and does that fighting justify the pre-emptive genocide of the entire Jewish population of mandatory Palestine, given all of the other historical context I have given you?

I had hoped that maybe stating in the clearest possible terms the demographic reality of this war may change some minds, but I guess that was naive. If you truly want to believe that Israel is a principally Ashkenazi project, that its survival and repeated military devastation of attempts to destroy it is a fluke or dependant on foreign aid, that its technologically advanced economy would evaporate if public sentiment in the west changed, that the population would flee "back" to the west if things got bad, that it would never use its nukes even if the existence of the state were at risk, then I cannot stop you.

I'm not saying you fairandunbiased believe every one of these points, just that many people here do.
 
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D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
threatened to confiscate Taiwanese property in China if Taiwan elected DPP.
This is a bizarre example because the PRC, being the victor of the civil war, would be totally within its rights to do this. It would be very unwise yes, but not an affront to Taiwan's nonexistent sovereign rights.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
today Americans aid makes up only 15% of the IDFs budget. Nuclear weapons aside, even if America demanded Israel pay for everything, it would be very much within the state's capacity to do, it would just require a modest tax increase.
This will be incorrect. Israel economic model based on selling startups which requires things to be overvalued and stock markets favor certain industry. this distort alot of things. Even though Israel not really industrial country but when Covid happened its budget deficit almost reached 8% of GDP. This show the vulnerability to slight down turns.

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In striking contrast to the grinding poverty suffered by Haim Margolis and 20% of all Israelis, tremendous wealth in Israel is concentrated in a few hundred people. According to Forbes, 77% of the richest 500 people in the country are billionaires. This number jumped in the last decade when they were fewer than half. In the last 20 years, the wealth of these 500 grew tenfold.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is a bizarre example because the PRC, being the victor of the civil war, would be totally within its rights to do this. It would be very unwise yes, but not an affront to Taiwan's nonexistent sovereign rights.
and yet we did not.

as victor of the civil war, PRC was also justified to execute Puyi, who was not only the former emperor (which is justification enough, see Louis XVI and Tsar Nicholas), but also collaborated with imperial Japan to regain his throne as ruler of Manchukuo.

Yet we did not. He was given a minor prison sentence and then allowed to live as a free citizen.

we were justified to execute or imprison for life KMT generals and officials like Du Yuming, Wei Lihuang and Fu Zuoyi who were war criminals or corrupt officials in the old regime. Yet we did not.

we were justified in abolishing the KMT and making it a criminal organization because they actually sponsored insurgents.

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Yet we did not.

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Just because you have the power to do something doesn't make it a good idea to do it.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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Remember how the pro-US side said China could never make an ASBM work because the Soviets and Americans failed at their attempts. The naysayers said then even targeting something as big as a carrier that was moving was impossible. Now they're admitting China can possibly hit moving targets smaller than a carrier with its ASBMs. Why all of the sudden the 180 degree turn? It's not because they have that much confidence in Chinese capabilities. It's because they saw it for themselves. China announce naval wargames where the US decided to send a U-2 spy plane to possibly spoil. Instead the US witnessed a two missile ASBM test fired a thousand miles apart meaning at least one missile hit within the margin for error. Now the question is did the Chinese tailor make it for the US to witness meaning China tested it out before with positive results where they would have confidence to demonstrate it for the US to witness? You know the US would send something to surveil Chinese exercises.
 
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