Miscellaneous News

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Yes I agree , in my opinion, putting a people in wrong charge is a bad thing. Like nobody ask lawyer when in come to engineering stuff just like nobody ask engineer when in come to for example international law. I think the Chinese government is already reflected this, for example Xi Jinping want to look for more international lawyer because Chinese company and institution is expanding internationally.
My issue is, Chinese Media Relation is clumsy and incompetent because they put the wrong guy in charge. Like, America has good propaganda in general because America put the right guy in charge. A good example is Edward Bernays a considered pioneered in propaganda. Another but extreme example is Joseph Goebbels. Whether you like it or not, The Nazi has good propaganda and there is a reason major internet company ban or limit Nazi material. Hell, I considered putting artist or game developer in charge of Chinese P propaganda department is better than the current staff of propaganda departmet
Human at the end of the day is social animal.
Disagree. Propaganda is like a make up. Governence is like a person. Pig with lipstick will never beat a natural beauty. People loved US because it is rich and powerful. Now it is no longer. It spend more and more on propaganda but it still cannot offset decline on national ppwer. No amount of propaganda can hide millions of covid death, mass drug addiction and rampant debt. Could China shit post better if I am in charge? Absolutely. But that only makes the final 5% difference, the other 95% of propaganda success is determined by national power, not medias.

You could make the argument that by spending less money than hard power you can get that 5% improvementon perception cheaper and thus is worth it. That is all fine and dandy, but never forget it is a tiny slice of the big pie.
 

OTCDebunker

New Member
Registered Member
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Government shutdown averted after Senate passes bill with just hours to spare​


The war in Ukraine is ending.

View attachment 119520
That's what I'm thinking too. I have no doubt that the near-shutdown actually was pretty serious in the sense that Republicans and Democrats genuinely HATE each other...when there's no 'cOmmOn EnemY (China)' around.

But as soon as I saw that part about no funding it made me realize that this is the primer/introduction to the eventual "we're pulling outta Ukraine" speech.

Democrats need to LOOK like they are only begrudgingly accepting this deal and not outright abandoning Ukraine. Republicans can now also say "see! Look! We're not completely unreasonable!! We're able to compromise too!"

Also, anybody else see that one republican who actually straight up pulled fire alarms falseu and maliciously right before the vote was so supposed to happen so that he could waste enough time and prevent the vote from happening?

Hahahahahaha

If you STILL needed proof that muricunt style democracy is just a manufacturing line for shitty leadership we'll take a look at him!
 

coolgod

Colonel
Registered Member
That's what I'm thinking too. I have no doubt that the near-shutdown actually was pretty serious in the sense that Republicans and Democrats genuinely HATE each other...when there's no 'cOmmOn EnemY (China)' around.

But as soon as I saw that part about no funding it made me realize that this is the primer/introduction to the eventual "we're pulling outta Ukraine" speech.

Democrats need to LOOK like they are only begrudgingly accepting this deal and not outright abandoning Ukraine. Republicans can now also say "see! Look! We're not completely unreasonable!! We're able to compromise too!"

Also, anybody else see that one republican who actually straight up pulled fire alarms falseu and maliciously right before the vote was so supposed to happen so that he could waste enough time and prevent the vote from happening?

Hahahahahaha

If you STILL needed proof that muricunt style democracy is just a manufacturing line for shitty leadership we'll take a look at him!
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Congressman Jamaal Bowman who pulled the alarm is a democrat. But yea all the signs point to US leaving the war in Ukraine.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
I do not believe that there will be another new cold war.

No.

The main reason is, no one is interested, other than the Americans.

The other reason, which is not really a reason, but a point tied directly to the point above, is that there will not be another new cold war because of irony.

The Americans, want a new cold war, this time with China. That they wish for another new cold war, does not mean it will come.

(The Americans want a new cold war, because that would be the best strategy for them to maintain their hegemony over the suckas/allies.)

That was the point of NATO, to keep the Americans in, Germany down, Russia out. This time they took no chances and blew up those pipelines. Guess who eat that more than others? So, obviously, a new cold war, would prop up American hegemony.

Do the suckas/allies have a choice? If they do, then obviously, no new cold war.

That is where we are I believe. Just like what Kissinger said, that we are at the foothills of a new cold war, but that is not realized yet.

You need more people riding on this new cold war train than the beltway and Murdoch media outlets.

If the reaction of various states to that war in Europe is any indication, then, clearly cold war, or Western narratives, are on their way out.

If the new cold war actually happens, but turns into the West versus the rest, not sure what is the point of that. The West has technology and the printing press. The rest, with China and Russia and the global south, has technology, the means of production equal to the West, and most of the resources.

The only way that a new cold war would be bad for China, is that everyone is aligned against China, like how it was during the original Cold War, the early parts of it. That seems like ancient history.

:D
 
Last edited:

solarz

Brigadier
That's what I'm thinking too. I have no doubt that the near-shutdown actually was pretty serious in the sense that Republicans and Democrats genuinely HATE each other...when there's no 'cOmmOn EnemY (China)' around.

But as soon as I saw that part about no funding it made me realize that this is the primer/introduction to the eventual "we're pulling outta Ukraine" speech.

Democrats need to LOOK like they are only begrudgingly accepting this deal and not outright abandoning Ukraine. Republicans can now also say "see! Look! We're not completely unreasonable!! We're able to compromise too!"

Also, anybody else see that one republican who actually straight up pulled fire alarms falseu and maliciously right before the vote was so supposed to happen so that he could waste enough time and prevent the vote from happening?

Hahahahahaha

If you STILL needed proof that muricunt style democracy is just a manufacturing line for shitty leadership we'll take a look at him!

I'm gonna have to see it before I believe it on this one.
 

Canton_pop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Looks like that summit with Biden ain’t gon’na be friendly!

China says US is the true 'empire of lies'​

Reuters
September 30, 20237:55 AM CDT

BEIJING, Sept 30 (Reuters) - The United States is the true "empire of lies", the Chinese foreign ministry said on Saturday, lashing out at a U.S. State Department report that accused Beijing of ploughing billions of dollars annually into information manipulation efforts.

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Notice that the Chinese Foreign Ministry was “lashing-out”, as opposed to responding-forecfully, or responding in-kind!
It should be the Empires of Flies because the nation is full of garbage
 

Stierlitz

Junior Member
Registered Member
According to three regional sources familiar with the negotiations, Saudi Arabia is determined to secure a military agreement requiring the United States to defend the kingdom in exchange for establishing diplomatic relations with Israel. Saudi Arabia will not obstruct a deal even if Israel does not grant significant concessions to the Palestinians in their quest for statehood.

When the matter was initially addressed between Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Joe Biden during the U.S. president’s visit to Saudi Arabia in July 2022, a treaty might fall short of the ironclad, NATO-style defence guarantees the kingdom initially envisioned.

Instead, a U.S. official was quoted as saying by news agency Reuters that it would resemble the treaties Washington has with Asian nations or, if that did not garner support from the U.S. Congress, it might resemble a deal with Bahrain, where the U.S. Navy Fifth Fleet is stationed. Congress wouldn’t have to approve such a deal.

According to the U.S. source, Washington might further sweeten any agreement by classifying Saudi Arabia as a Major Non-NATO Ally, a position also granted to Israel.

However, all sources concurred that Saudi Arabia would not accept anything less than legally enforceable pledges of American support if attacked, as it was on September 14, 2019, when missile strikes on its oil sites rattled world markets. Saudi Arabia and the United States blamed Iran, the kingdom’s adversary in the region, although Tehran denied any involvement.

Agreements uniting two longtime enemies and tying Riyadh to Washington after China’s intrusions in the region would transform the Middle East by providing safety to the world’s largest oil exporter in exchange for normalisation with Israel. It would be a diplomatic triumph for Biden to celebrate before the 2024 presidential race.

Israel may relax some of its limitations on the Palestinians, but such actions wouldn’t fulfil their hopes for a state. The three regional sources acquainted with the negotiations indicated that, similar to prior Arab-Israeli agreements negotiated over the years, the Palestinians’ primary desire for statehood will be subordinated.

“The normalisation will be between Israel and Saudi Arabia. If the Palestinians oppose it the kingdom will continue in its path,” said one of the regional sources.

“Saudi Arabia supports a peace plan for the Palestinians, but this time it wanted something for Saudi Arabia, not just for the Palestinians.”

The Saudi government did not respond to emailed questions about this article.

The terms of a defence pact are still being worked out, according to a U.S. official who, like others, chose not to be named due to the sensitivity of the situation. He or she also noted that the agreement under discussion “would not be a treaty alliance or anything like that… It wouldn’t be a real treaty; rather, it would be a mutual defence arrangement.

The official predicted that it would more closely resemble American relations with Israel, which receives the most cutting-edge American weapons and participates in combined air force and missile defence exercises.

MbS requested a treaty modelled after NATO, according to a source in Washington familiar with the discussions, but Washington was reluctant to go as far as NATO’s Article 5 guarantee that an attack on one ally is considered an act of war.

According to the source, Biden’s advisers may take into account a deal similar to those with Japan and other Asian allies, whereby the United States guarantees military support but is less clear about whether U.S. troops will be sent. The source did warn that some American senators would oppose such a treaty.

Another model, not requiring congressional approval, is the agreement the United States made with Bahrain on September 13 in which it promised to “deter and confront any external aggression” but also stated that the two countries would confer before taking any action, if any.

The designation of Saudi Arabia as a Major Non-NATO Ally, according to the source in Washington, is something that has long been discussed. This status, which a number of Arab countries, including Egypt, have comes with a range of benefits, such as training.

In order to help reach an agreement, the second of the two regional sources claimed that Riyadh was conceding on some of its goals, particularly its intentions for civilian nuclear technology. The source claimed that Saudi Arabia was prepared to ratify Section 123 of the U.S. Atomic Energy Act, which creates a framework for peaceful nuclear cooperation between the U.S. and other countries. Previously, Riyadh had refused to do so.

The Gulf source claimed that Saudi Arabia was willing to accept a deal that fell short of a NATO Article 5 guarantee but insisted that the United States would have to promise to defend the country in the event of an attack. The insider added that a pact might be comparable to Bahrain’s arrangement but include additional requirements.

In response to emailed questions about details in this article, a U.S. State Department spokesperson said: “Many of the key elements of a pathway towards normalisation are now on the table and there is a broad understanding of those elements, which we will not discuss publicly.”

“There’s still lots of work to do, and we’re working through it,” the spokesperson added, saying there was not yet a formal framework and stakeholders were working on legal and other elements.

In the reply, the spokeswoman avoided going into specifics on the US-Saudi defence agreement.

Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, has praised the prospect of a “historic” peace with Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam. However, in order to win the prize, Netanyahu must gain the support of members of his far-right coalition who are opposed to making any concessions to the Palestinians.

In a recent interview with Fox News, MbS said that the kingdom was progressively edging towards normalising relations with Israel. The necessity for Israel to “ease the life of the Palestinians” was mentioned in his speech, but he made no mention of the existence of a Palestinian state.

However, diplomats and regional sources claimed that MbS was demanding specific guarantees from Israel in order to demonstrate that he was not deserting the Palestinians and that he was working to maintain the possibility of a two-state solution.

These include putting pressure on Israel to hand over some of the West Bank territory it currently controls to the Palestinian Authority (PA), restrict Jewish settlement development, and stop any attempts to annex territory. According to diplomats and insiders, Riyadh has also vowed to provide financial support to the PA.

Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, has stated that any agreement must recognise the Palestinians’ claim to a state within the boundaries of 1967, including East Jerusalem, and must halt Israeli settlement construction. All sources, however, agreed that a Saudi-Israeli agreement was unlikely to address those flashpoint issues.

According to Netanyahu, the Palestinians shouldn’t have a veto over any peace agreement.

But even if the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia concur, getting support from US Congress members will still be difficult.

For its military intervention in Yemen, its efforts to support oil prices, and its complicity in the 2018 murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who worked for the Washington Post, Riyadh has already come under fire from Republicans and members of Biden’s Democratic Party. MbS denies directing the murder.

“What’s important for Saudi Arabia is for Biden to have the pact approved by Congress,” the first regional source said, pointing to concessions Riyadh was making to secure a deal.

According to Biden, a pact that solidifies a U.S.-Israeli-Saudi axis might halt China’s advancement in international relations after Beijing helped bring together Saudi Arabia and Iran, which Washington accuses of wanting nuclear weapons. Iran disputes this.

“There was a sense that the U.S. has abandoned the region,” said one diplomat.

“By courting China, the Saudis wanted to create some anxiety that will make the U.S. re-engage. It has worked.”

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Nobo

Junior Member
Registered Member
According to three regional sources familiar with the negotiations, Saudi Arabia is determined to secure a military agreement requiring the United States to defend the kingdom in exchange for establishing diplomatic relations with Israel. Saudi Arabia will not obstruct a deal even if Israel does not grant significant concessions to the Palestinians in their quest for statehood.

When the matter was initially addressed between Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and Joe Biden during the U.S. president’s visit to Saudi Arabia in July 2022, a treaty might fall short of the ironclad, NATO-style defence guarantees the kingdom initially envisioned.

Instead, a U.S. official was quoted as saying by news agency Reuters that it would resemble the treaties Washington has with Asian nations or, if that did not garner support from the U.S. Congress, it might resemble a deal with Bahrain, where the U.S. Navy Fifth Fleet is stationed. Congress wouldn’t have to approve such a deal.

According to the U.S. source, Washington might further sweeten any agreement by classifying Saudi Arabia as a Major Non-NATO Ally, a position also granted to Israel.

However, all sources concurred that Saudi Arabia would not accept anything less than legally enforceable pledges of American support if attacked, as it was on September 14, 2019, when missile strikes on its oil sites rattled world markets. Saudi Arabia and the United States blamed Iran, the kingdom’s adversary in the region, although Tehran denied any involvement.

Agreements uniting two longtime enemies and tying Riyadh to Washington after China’s intrusions in the region would transform the Middle East by providing safety to the world’s largest oil exporter in exchange for normalisation with Israel. It would be a diplomatic triumph for Biden to celebrate before the 2024 presidential race.

Israel may relax some of its limitations on the Palestinians, but such actions wouldn’t fulfil their hopes for a state. The three regional sources acquainted with the negotiations indicated that, similar to prior Arab-Israeli agreements negotiated over the years, the Palestinians’ primary desire for statehood will be subordinated.

“The normalisation will be between Israel and Saudi Arabia. If the Palestinians oppose it the kingdom will continue in its path,” said one of the regional sources.

“Saudi Arabia supports a peace plan for the Palestinians, but this time it wanted something for Saudi Arabia, not just for the Palestinians.”

The Saudi government did not respond to emailed questions about this article.

The terms of a defence pact are still being worked out, according to a U.S. official who, like others, chose not to be named due to the sensitivity of the situation. He or she also noted that the agreement under discussion “would not be a treaty alliance or anything like that… It wouldn’t be a real treaty; rather, it would be a mutual defence arrangement.

The official predicted that it would more closely resemble American relations with Israel, which receives the most cutting-edge American weapons and participates in combined air force and missile defence exercises.

MbS requested a treaty modelled after NATO, according to a source in Washington familiar with the discussions, but Washington was reluctant to go as far as NATO’s Article 5 guarantee that an attack on one ally is considered an act of war.

According to the source, Biden’s advisers may take into account a deal similar to those with Japan and other Asian allies, whereby the United States guarantees military support but is less clear about whether U.S. troops will be sent. The source did warn that some American senators would oppose such a treaty.

Another model, not requiring congressional approval, is the agreement the United States made with Bahrain on September 13 in which it promised to “deter and confront any external aggression” but also stated that the two countries would confer before taking any action, if any.

The designation of Saudi Arabia as a Major Non-NATO Ally, according to the source in Washington, is something that has long been discussed. This status, which a number of Arab countries, including Egypt, have comes with a range of benefits, such as training.

In order to help reach an agreement, the second of the two regional sources claimed that Riyadh was conceding on some of its goals, particularly its intentions for civilian nuclear technology. The source claimed that Saudi Arabia was prepared to ratify Section 123 of the U.S. Atomic Energy Act, which creates a framework for peaceful nuclear cooperation between the U.S. and other countries. Previously, Riyadh had refused to do so.

The Gulf source claimed that Saudi Arabia was willing to accept a deal that fell short of a NATO Article 5 guarantee but insisted that the United States would have to promise to defend the country in the event of an attack. The insider added that a pact might be comparable to Bahrain’s arrangement but include additional requirements.

In response to emailed questions about details in this article, a U.S. State Department spokesperson said: “Many of the key elements of a pathway towards normalisation are now on the table and there is a broad understanding of those elements, which we will not discuss publicly.”

“There’s still lots of work to do, and we’re working through it,” the spokesperson added, saying there was not yet a formal framework and stakeholders were working on legal and other elements.

In the reply, the spokeswoman avoided going into specifics on the US-Saudi defence agreement.

Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, has praised the prospect of a “historic” peace with Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam. However, in order to win the prize, Netanyahu must gain the support of members of his far-right coalition who are opposed to making any concessions to the Palestinians.

In a recent interview with Fox News, MbS said that the kingdom was progressively edging towards normalising relations with Israel. The necessity for Israel to “ease the life of the Palestinians” was mentioned in his speech, but he made no mention of the existence of a Palestinian state.

However, diplomats and regional sources claimed that MbS was demanding specific guarantees from Israel in order to demonstrate that he was not deserting the Palestinians and that he was working to maintain the possibility of a two-state solution.

These include putting pressure on Israel to hand over some of the West Bank territory it currently controls to the Palestinian Authority (PA), restrict Jewish settlement development, and stop any attempts to annex territory. According to diplomats and insiders, Riyadh has also vowed to provide financial support to the PA.

Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, has stated that any agreement must recognise the Palestinians’ claim to a state within the boundaries of 1967, including East Jerusalem, and must halt Israeli settlement construction. All sources, however, agreed that a Saudi-Israeli agreement was unlikely to address those flashpoint issues.

According to Netanyahu, the Palestinians shouldn’t have a veto over any peace agreement.

But even if the US, Israel, and Saudi Arabia concur, getting support from US Congress members will still be difficult.

For its military intervention in Yemen, its efforts to support oil prices, and its complicity in the 2018 murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who worked for the Washington Post, Riyadh has already come under fire from Republicans and members of Biden’s Democratic Party. MbS denies directing the murder.

“What’s important for Saudi Arabia is for Biden to have the pact approved by Congress,” the first regional source said, pointing to concessions Riyadh was making to secure a deal.

According to Biden, a pact that solidifies a U.S.-Israeli-Saudi axis might halt China’s advancement in international relations after Beijing helped bring together Saudi Arabia and Iran, which Washington accuses of wanting nuclear weapons. Iran disputes this.

“There was a sense that the U.S. has abandoned the region,” said one diplomat.

“By courting China, the Saudis wanted to create some anxiety that will make the U.S. re-engage. It has worked.”

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I read that article & wasted 4 minutes of my life. Felt like i am reading some Hollywood movie script.

Let's start...with the ending.

A firstpost..which is an Indian site of course, quoting "one diplomat" who mustn't be named?

NATO-style defense guarantees --->>> Come on, how long murikanns have been whining about their "expenses" in Europe, defending them?
Anything resembling that would be a death sentence for murikkans, given the region. And i don't see how they are going to get in that quagmire given how exhausted they are "defending" Europe.
Compared to snowball that is Europe where creating NATO articles is very easy by the way, West Asia is an active volcano. At this point Murikkans neither have the financial capacity or the supply chain capacity to support this. West can't really keep China out of there because of Iran-Iraq-Syria axis already exists. And Russia is already there. West couldn't do it 20 years ago when they were playing in empty field.

Keeping Palestine out of question, KSA wants this because their loads of wealth are held in usd, that's the epitome of problem. But they need to keep in mind what the consequences would be if they go ahead with this. They need to keep in mind that there exists an alternate supply chain of energy. They shouldn't overplay their hands.
 
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