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Virtup

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The United States is making progress toward a landmark agreement that would see Saudi Arabia normalize relations with Israel in exchange for a U.S. defense pact and help developing its own civilian nuclear program, two diplomatic sources told NBC News.

The complex talks are picking up steam and officials on all sides have voiced growing optimism in recent days that they could soon come together in a deal that would transform the political landscape of the Middle East and deliver a major foreign policy victory to President Joe Biden.

Formal recognition of the Jewish state by the Arab world’s most influential power would represent a tectonic shift in the region after more than half a century of conflict and animosity. It could also represent a diplomatic coup for the Biden administration, which has reversed its hardline stance on Saudi Arabia in a bid to bring together two close U.S. allies as it seeks to ward off China’s growing ambitions.

But significant hurdles remain, including Israel's ongoing conflict with the Palestinians. The deal would see the Palestinians granted as-yet undefined land in the West Bank, the two sources said, but huge questions persist over what it would mean for their future.

Offering Riyadh a formal pact of mutual defense, an arrangement on par with U.S. guarantees to key allies such as Japan and South Korea, could also complicate the domestic politics of any deal.

If the deal were to come together, U.S. officials believe it would be early next year, before the presidential election campaign makes it difficult to get 67 votes in the Senate, which has to ratify the defense treaty and would need to approve helping the Gulf kingdom’s de facto ruler, the powerful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, in his civilian nuclear ambitions.

Discussions about the Saudi defense pact were first reported by The New York Times.
'Still a challenge'

According to a senior U.S. official, Israel also wants a defense treaty with the U.S. to match any new Saudi treaty but the U.S. has not agreed to that. Israel already gets almost $4 billion a year in U.S. military assistance and administration officials believe that may make it harder to get an already complicated agreement through the Senate.

A recent poll from the Quincy Institute showed that just more than half of Americans would oppose an agreement between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia that would see Washington committing U.S. soldiers to defend the Saudis in the event of a war. The exact terms of any defense pact are unclear.

But a deal of this scale would be “transformative,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken told MSNBC on Thursday. He cautioned that there were still “a lot of moving pieces,” and that landing all of them would take “a tremendous amount of work.”

“We’re in the middle of it; it’s still a challenge,” he added.

National security adviser Jake Sullivan has made two trips to Saudi Arabia in recent weeks and sources familiar with his travel said he was actively engaged in the talks.

For Biden, the deal could offer a boost ahead of the 2024 presidential election, rivaling then-President Donald Trump's Abraham Accords — a series of historic agreements signed in 2020 normalizing ties between Israel and Gulf states the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

Relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia have warmed up in recent years but this has remained informal.

Recognizing Israel would likely be seen as a betrayal by the Palestinians and those who support Palestinian statehood, and who have relied on Riyadh as a bedrock of the Arab world’s support. An agreement that doesn’t include real concessions to the Palestinians could feed anger in the region.

The growing Israel-Saudi ties have been driven in large part by mutual acrimony toward Iran.

Even though Riyadh agreed to a Beijing-brokered deal to restore diplomatic relations with Tehran earlier this year, Washington may see forging formal Saudi ties with Israel as a way to both combat Iranian aggression and counter China's efforts to expand its influence in the region.

Meeting with Biden in New York on Wednesday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said a deal to “achieve reconciliation between the Islamic world and the Jewish state” was within reach.

Officials in both countries said they discussed the deal during their meeting, among other issues. Netanyahu addressed the United Nations General Assembly on Friday morning and touted the potential deal as a historic breakthrough that would help bring "peace and prosperity" to the region.

But a sticking point could be the Israeli leader’s own government, the most religious and right-wing in his country’s history. His coalition partners may put up strong resistance to any significant concessions for the Palestinians, which could in turn be a deal breaker for Saudi Arabia.

Opposition leader Yair Lapid has also raised concerns about the Saudis "becoming a nuclear threshold state" in the event of a deal.

Speaking with Fox News on Wednesday, bin Salman vowed to work with “whoever is there” in the Israeli government as long as the deal ensures the “needs” of the Palestinians. He sounded optimistic about the potential agreement, saying it would be the biggest diplomatic deal since the end of the Cold War. “Every day, we get closer,” he told Fox.

Israel's foreign minister also said Thursday that a framework deal could be in place by early next year.

Even if he can get Saudi Arabia and Israel to agree, Biden may still find domestic opponents.

Some senators have already voiced concerns about a deal with Saudi Arabia considering ongoing anger about the kingdom’s alleged role in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. 2001, and its perceived human rights record, which has come under further scrutiny since the killing of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi.

Biden vowed to make Saudi Arabia a “pariah” during his 2020 presidential campaign but has since eased that stance after a clash over oil production. He visited the country last year, sharing a controversial fist bump with the crown prince.

Senate Foreign Relations Committee member Chris Coons, D-Del., told NBC News on Thursday that a number of committee members have been discussing the possible agreement, which he said is in its early stages of negotiation.

“There has to be active engagement by Israel in terms of ensuring that whatever nuclear technology is shared with the Saudis, and whatever the arrangements are for security with the Saudis, are also agreeable to the Israelis," Coons said.

There also has to be a significant provision for the Palestinians, and “the security of their position” in the West Bank, Coons said.

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It seems MBS is still too naïve after all. He probably thinks he can get the israelis to stop colonizing palestine's land and guarantee access to AL AQSA mosque (similar to the deal between Richard the lionheart and Saleheddin) and the US to agree to a military alliance, in exchange for simply normalizing relations with Israel x), and expects them to keep their word when the going get rough, even though the zionists have been historically well known for not keeping theirs.
Does he really expect the rest of the muslim world (outside of gulf) to simply follow his lead? He could've done so much more for Palestine by removing that alliance condition from the agreement, after all, this entire conflict is centered around the fact that zionist illegally occupied Palestine and especially Jerusalem (or at least it's perceived that way in the muslim world), not the security of the Saud clan. From what I've seen, the vast majority of muslims have accepted that a peaceful settlement, where both states of Palestine and Israel coexist, and with palestine keeping AL AQSA mosque (the rest of Jerusalem doesn't really matter for them), is the best option they have left. This is such a good opportiunity for the Saudis to leave a massive mark on history, and they're throwing it. Sigh...
 

FriedButter

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It seems MBS is still too naïve after all. He probably thinks he can get the israelis to stop colonizing palestine's land and guarantee access to AL AQSA mosque (similar to the deal between Richard the lionheart and Saleheddin) and the US to agree to a military alliance, in exchange for simply normalizing relations with Israel x), and expects them to keep their word when the going get rough, even though the zionists have been historically well known for not keeping theirs.
Does he really expect the rest of the muslim world (outside of gulf) to simply follow his lead? He could've done so much more for Palestine by removing that alliance condition from the agreement, after all, this entire conflict is centered around the fact that zionist illegally occupied Palestine and especially Jerusalem (or at least it's perceived that way in the muslim world), not the security of the Saud clan. From what I've seen, the vast majority of muslims have accepted that a peaceful settlement, where both states of Palestine and Israel coexist, and with palestine keeping AL AQSA mosque (the rest of Jerusalem doesn't really matter for them), is the best option they have left. This is such a good opportiunity for the Saudis to leave a massive mark on history, and they're throwing it. Sigh...

What makes you think that Palestine is a priority for the Saudis? It’s merely a secondary goal assuming they actually care about it outside of public relations in the first place.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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It never fails. Anyone who shows a so-called moral hatred towards China are just hiding their own seamy character. There was a radio talk show host in the San Francisco Bay Area who was a Democrat and had a veiled hatred towards Chinese. The guy never had politicians on his show except if they were running against a Chinese-American candidate. He always brought up human rights when it came to China. He was later arrested and convicted of child molestation when it came out that when he was a priest earlier in life, he apparently took advantage of little girls. Look at all the Republicans hand-wringing over China when they were making money off of China.

The reason why this happens is because Chinese are easy targets because Chinese tend to do nothing again where both Republicans and Democrats can use it to cover-up their own unethical immoral behavior.
 

ironborn

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It never fails. Anyone who shows a so-called moral hatred towards China are just hiding their own seamy character. There was a radio talk show host in the San Francisco Bay Area who was a Democrat and had a veiled hatred towards Chinese. The guy never had politicians on his show except if they were running against a Chinese-American candidate. He always brought up human rights when it came to China. He was later arrested and convicted of child molestation when it came out that when he was a priest earlier in life, he apparently took advantage of little girls. Look at all the Republicans hand-wringing over China when they were making money off of China.

The reason why this happens is because Chinese are easy targets because Chinese tend to do nothing again where both Republicans and Democrats can use it to cover-up their own unethical immoral behavior.
Why would any US politicians take bribes from anyone, since bribery is already legalized in the US through lobbying industry. Too cheap to pay a lobbyist ? Don't want let a DC lobbyist take a cut ?
 

KYli

Brigadier
India is just a troublemaker.
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"These Indian athletes already got a visa to enter China. China didn't refuse any visa," OCA honorary life vice-president Wei Jizhong, who is from China, told reporters in Hangzhou. "But unfortunately these athletes didn't accept the visa."

In previous cases involving Indian athletes travelling to sports events in China, a "stapled visa" on a separate piece of paper has been issued to those originating from Arunachal Pradesh to avoid stamping their passports issued by the Indian government.
 

Virtup

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What makes you think that Palestine is a priority for the Saudis? It’s merely a secondary goal assuming they actually care about it outside of public relations in the first place.
What I mean is that Saudi Arabia threw a precious opportunity to permanently get the rest of the muslim world (again, outside of gulf) on it's side in the constant power play between it and Iran, because breaking news: they don't really care about Shia and Wahabi flavors of Islam, the core tenets are still the same for every sect. In fact, they're far more weary of wahabism because it leans alot more towards extremism (and in case you didn't already know, muslim countries are the first and biggest victim of terrorism).
Besides, due to their history of dealing with the US, and their lavish lifestyle that runs contrary to the Islam's core tenet of avoiding useless luxuries and living a simple life, gulf arabs are deeply mistrusted in the rest of the arab world. This usually manifest in the failure of most projects they try to invest in (the first reaction is usually: what are they up to? do they seek to buy out our lands and throw us out? are they trying to enslave us?)
MBS and the rest of his clan could've eliminated many of these doubts had they sought to look out more for Palestine than themselves in this deal. Always remember, the Palestine question concerns the ENTIRE muslim world. It was a big opportunity for them and yet they threw it away and instead, made decisions that reinforced the stereotypes.
But for me, personally, that's not even their biggest blunder. It is the fact that they're choosing to believe in what the US and Israel are saying. The zionists have been non-stop lying since before 1948, while the US just recently threw their supposed "allies" under the bus and cannibalized them. How could they miss that?
 

Stierlitz

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Even if the deal happens (which I doubt), it's a win for Israel, not America.

Israel isn't America, their foreign policy is completely unaligned with America's. Israel aren't even sanctioning Russia, let alone providing aid or selling weapons to the Ukraine. Even India and Turkey who get called Putin puppets are doing more for the Ukraine than Israel.

I don't see a single benefit for America from this "trade route".
Besides diplomatic prestige, it's about restricting China's influence in the region and alienating Iran for the U.S.

The deal Biden is looking to score would effectively cancel the effects of China brokered deal from last March because there is no chance that Iran is maintaining ties with SA if SA decides to normalise ties with Israel. The deal would also completely bring back SA to US sphere of influence through a proposed Japan/SK styled security pact which means they would have their own Trojan horse inside BRICS. Seems to me like SA never actually made a strategic shift. Reapproachment with Iran and reintegration of Syria was all a show for them intended to scare U.S. into thinking that China was replacing them and make them crawl back.

I do agree that the deal is unlikely, at least for now. Satanyahu's radical allies are against concessions of any kind towards Palestinians and he depends on them to stay in power considering his slim majority in Knesset. Second factor is King Salman. While he's still alive, I think SA will normalize ties with zionist regime only in the case of Palestinian statehood (which zionist regime will never agree to). I doubt he would settle for vague unenforceable promises like UAE did. Things are different with MBS. He is a snake who will betray Palestinians the moment the King is dead and normalize ties with zionist regime whether or not Palestinian interests are taken into account.
 
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coolgod

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China, US set up working groups for economic issues

Move marks major step in putting brakes on downward spiral in bilateral ties: experts


Please don't bail the US out.

Also anyone else got annoyed that Hangzhou residents are learning English to help with Hangzhou Asian Games? I think the time is come for China to deemphasize English, especially within use in Asia.
 
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