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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
azn_cyniq said:
To be honest, I don't think there is a "greener grass" scenario. I can't name a single industrialized country that doesn't suffer from the same issues. My point is that the United States, in spite of the astronomically high salaries, is no better than the rest of the world in this regard. That is probably why, as others have pointed out, most Chinese students in the United States return to China. It's easier to endure the hardships of life in a country you love.
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There's no other industrialized country where being shot by roving gangs for $20, high maternal mortality and religious extremism are issues. Not one.

When you say "roving gangs shooting people for cash, high maternal mortality, religious extremism" most people think of the poorest, most war torn parts of sub-Saharan Africa or the Middle East.
 
D

Deleted member 23272

Guest
Bellum_Romanum said:
"While back in China, most of them will say in their group of roughly 15 or so friends, 1-3 will be lucky enough to have a job in the field they studied, the rest are either stuck at home, working for their parents, or delivering for MeiTuan. Feel whatever you want about what I wrote in my OP, but the preceding sentence is reality that more and more members, even the diehard ones, are willing to acknowledge is a current reality in China."

What? What type of industry or expertise/educational background did these 15 friends of yours studied? Finance? STEM related fields? I am asking because I don't want to misunderstand or misinterpret the context of what you posted I quoted above. Based on what you wrote, one can surmise that the current job marker in China is very tight, not as financially rewarding as in the U.S. not as wanted by Chinese Companies in tech or just in general, and the compensation is not very competitive compared to what American recruiters from x,y,z, American companies would do.

All I can say to that is BULLSHIT. Please, which company or companies in the U.S. are going all out in head hunting or out bidding would be recruits in whatever field of economy in America? Are we talking about the current job market? Or is your opinion based on the past trend, pre-covid 19 and pre-inflation period?

Look, I frankly don't give a toss if you prefer America, love American system, love American style of business etc..but for the love of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus provide some verifiable data to the claims you make, and that you seem to insist to be the true narrative of the overall job prospects in China right now.
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First off I get your passionate, but calm down. Not every discussion on a topic where things might not necessarily be ideal has to be taken as an insult to China's dignity.

Second of all you want proof to corroborate what I've been hearing and the reason why some of the people I know have been feeling the way they do? Fine, here are two articles.

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As before, balls in your court now if you want to argue in favor of your POV on the topic.
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Witchhunter12 said:
Well I thank you for the honest answer rather than just going on with the "poop and needles on every square feet" meme, which really is just tired and needs no rebuttal.

For the record in my OP, I said based on my experiences these are a lot of Chinese expat's feelings for the moment. And for the moment simply put, in a lot of the industries they work in, American recruiters will literally fight over you. While back in China, most of them will say in their group of roughly 15 or so friends, 1-3 will be lucky enough to have a job in the field they studied, the rest are either stuck at home, working for their parents, or delivering for MeiTuan. Feel whatever you want about what I wrote in my OP, but the preceding sentence is reality that more and more members, even the diehard ones, are willing to acknowledge is a current reality in China. Sure money isn't everything, but putting food on the table is a non-negotiable part of life. Patriotism won't put food on the table and in America, if they can get a job in their field and if that field is still in a hiring frenzy, then so be it.

Maybe things will change in the future and I certainly hope they will, but from what I've seen that's just how some things are for now.
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One of my buddies’ daughter in Canada just got rejected by Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Good luck to all young Chinese Americans. Their abilities to ”put food on the table” look more and more like “can’t afford to put food on the table”.
 
supercat

supercat

Major
Witchhunter12 said:
Well I thank you for the honest answer rather than just going on with the "poop and needles on every square feet" meme, which really is just tired and needs no rebuttal.
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The problem with the current situation in the US is that it has so many inner-city slums, so much crumbling infrastructures, and shorter life expectancy than China due to so many social issues, despite at least 5 times richer than China on a per capita basis.

Witchhunter12 said:
For the record in my OP, I said based on my experiences these are a lot of Chinese expat's feelings for the moment. And for the moment simply put, in a lot of the industries they work in, American recruiters will literally fight over you. While back in China, most of them will say in their group of roughly 15 or so friends, 1-3 will be lucky enough to have a job in the field they studied, the rest are either stuck at home, working for their parents, or delivering for MeiTuan. Feel whatever you want about what I wrote in my OP, but the preceding sentence is reality that more and more members, even the diehard ones, are willing to acknowledge is a current reality in China. Sure money isn't everything, but putting food on the table is a non-negotiable part of life. Patriotism won't put food on the table and in America, if they can get a job in their field and if that field is still in a hiring frenzy, then so be it.

Maybe things will change in the future and I certainly hope they will, but from what I've seen that's just how some things are for now.
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This explains why some Chinese immigrate to other countries. To put it briefly, China has a hyper-competitive society. It's very difficult to get ahead in China. It's much easier in the US in comparison. BTW, strangely, one third of Americans also wants to live abroad.
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Anyone who thinks sanctions can deter China from taking back Taiwan is really delusional.
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For those who are wondering, this is what the current far-right Italian government is willing to do.

German sea captain faces 20 years in jail for migrant rescue efforts​

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I'm glad Michael Hudson is giving lectures in China.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671646048211685376

Is Ukraine preparing a false flag operation?
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671805650106474497
 
LawLeadsToPeace

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
Witchhunter12 said:
First off I get your passionate, but calm down. Not every discussion on a topic where things might not necessarily be ideal has to be taken as an insult to China's dignity.

Second of all you want proof to corroborate what I've been hearing and the reason why some of the people I know have been feeling the way they do? Fine, here are two articles.

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As before, balls in your court now if you want to argue in favor of your POV on the topic.
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I am not going to get into whose perspective is right or wrong. However I do question your sources for the sake of casual debating. Isn’t your citations a false equivalence? The link to the tech hiring spree didn’t distinguish the hiring rate of new college grads from that of more experienced applicants. The second link to the unemployment rate encompasses everyone in the age bracket of 16-24 in which mostly nobody has relevant job experience. In addition, it doesn’t distinguish between the different majors and their hiring rates. So those two sources don’t really prove your point and can be used as evidence for cherry-picking.
 
A

azn_cyniq

Junior Member
Registered Member
Witchhunter12 said:
Well I thank you for the honest answer rather than just going on with the "poop and needles on every square feet" meme, which really is just tired and needs no rebuttal.

For the record in my OP, I said based on my experiences these are a lot of Chinese expat's feelings for the moment. And for the moment simply put, in a lot of the industries they work in, American recruiters will literally fight over you. While back in China, most of them will say in their group of roughly 15 or so friends, 1-3 will be lucky enough to have a job in the field they studied, the rest are either stuck at home, working for their parents, or delivering for MeiTuan. Feel whatever you want about what I wrote in my OP, but the preceding sentence is reality that more and more members, even the diehard ones, are willing to acknowledge is a current reality in China. Sure money isn't everything, but putting food on the table is a non-negotiable part of life. Patriotism won't put food on the table and in America, if they can get a job in their field and if that field is still in a hiring frenzy, then so be it.

Maybe things will change in the future and I certainly hope they will, but from what I've seen that's just how some things are for now.
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I appreciate your response. Like I said before, my experience is different from yours. Many of my Chinese friends are current or former graduate students at top American universities. Almost all of them landed prestigious jobs in China right after graduation. Based on what I've seen, China doesn't lack the ability to absorb top talent. Just in the past four years alone, I've seen the LinkedIn profiles of hundreds of Chinese graduate students go from titles like "postdoc at Stanford University" or "PhD candidate at Princeton University" to "incoming assistant professor at Tsinghua University" or "researcher at Huawei."

There was a period of time during the pandemic when tech companies in the United States went on a hiring spree. That hiring spree ended a long time ago. It was followed by mass layoffs and hiring freezes. I have friends who still cannot find jobs after being laid off from "prestigious" companies like Google and Meta. Where in the United States are employers fighting for employees? I'm not joking, let me know and I'll tell my friends about it.

Also, I haven't heard of people struggling to put food on the table in China. I don't think any Chinese student in the United States will struggle to put food on the table if they decide to return to China.
 
A

azn_cyniq

Junior Member
Registered Member
Witchhunter12 said:
First off I get your passionate, but calm down. Not every discussion on a topic where things might not necessarily be ideal has to be taken as an insult to China's dignity.

Second of all you want proof to corroborate what I've been hearing and the reason why some of the people I know have been feeling the way they do? Fine, here are two articles.

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As before, balls in your court now if you want to argue in favor of your POV on the topic.
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The first article says that most of these job postings come from "the enormous base of the tech pyramid." The companies that form the base tend to be far less stable than large corporations. They also tend to pay far less. I know more than one person who got hired by a small company only to be laid off months later because the company literally ran out of money. There may be more job postings, but in general the economy is not in a great state at the moment.
 
H

H2O

Junior Member
Registered Member
supercat said:
For those who are wondering, this is what the current far-right Italian government is willing to do.

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This ship captain have a strong case in court but I got a feeling that Article 98 of 1982 United Nations Law of the Sea is being weaponized. If the Italian government wants to stop the flow of migrants then they need to find the root cause of the problems in Africa. The funny thing is that Gaddafi warned Europe that his fall will bring about this kind of migrant crisis to Europe. So, was it hubris of European leaders to ignore Gaddafi's warning or is there a faction within Europe that wanted this to happen to swing the general population to the "far-right"?
 
L

luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
supercat said:
A comparison of Indonesia and India's HSR:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1670917746698387457
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671087154557255680
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luminary said:
I heard the success of the China-Laos Railway has been a huge motivating factor for Thailand and Myanmar to get their respective projects completed.

It's a perfect illustration of the BRI strategy- you can either hop on the development train or see all of your regional rivals leapfrog you by light years. Hopefully it'll convince the Philippines as well.
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Cue former chief advisor to several prime ministers of Thailand
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, invoking Xi's phrase of "common prosperity":

Next Thai government should fast-track the China train​

Stalled high-speed rail project would promote common prosperity in rural Thailand
This is a critical task for the next Thai government. China’s government coined the term “common prosperity” to mean narrowing the income gap between China’s prosperous cities and its rural provinces. High-speed communications give rural communities the chance to prosper by gaining access to the world market.
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Our path to prosperity requires an increase in the value-added of agriculture that raises rural incomes.

China’s requirement for food security creates a strong common interest with Thailand and the rest of Southeast Asia.
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With the completion of the nearly 1,000-kilometer, high-speed rail link between the southern Chinese city of Kunming and Vientiane, Laos, the additional 700 kilometers to Bangkok present less of a challenge.


China now exports almost as much to ASEAN as it does to the European Union, yet its infrastructure spending on the overland connection to Europe is an order of magnitude greater than its investment in Southeast Asia. That discrepancy is the result of political missteps.

The new Thai government cannot afford to perpetuate these errors.
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High-quality, pollutant-free Thai produce would improve the living standard of southwestern China as well as sustain the prosperity of rural Thailand.

Thailand must embrace the Fourth Industrial Revolution—the marriage of artificial intelligence, high-speed data transmission and Cloud computing with the real economy.

Fourth Industrial Revolution technology applies to agriculture as much as it does to manufacturing. It improves quality control in food packaging, shortens warehouse and delivery times, and provides instantaneous information to farmers on product demand.

Most of all, the spread of broadband to rural areas gives communities around the world an opportunity to trade directly with each other. Farming communities who worked at the margin of the world market without access to information now can find customers or suppliers worldwide.
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The combination of new information technology and high-speed rail transport can unleash a wave of prosperity and rising incomes in rural Thailand. This is an opportunity too big to miss, and it should be a top priority of the new Thai government.
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C

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
Witchhunter12 said:
Well I thank you for the honest answer rather than just going on with the "poop and needles on every square feet" meme, which really is just tired and needs no rebuttal.

For the record in my OP, I said based on my experiences these are a lot of Chinese expat's feelings for the moment. And for the moment simply put, in a lot of the industries they work in, American recruiters will literally fight over you. While back in China, most of them will say in their group of roughly 15 or so friends, 1-3 will be lucky enough to have a job in the field they studied, the rest are either stuck at home, working for their parents, or delivering for MeiTuan. Feel whatever you want about what I wrote in my OP, but the preceding sentence is reality that more and more members, even the diehard ones, are willing to acknowledge is a current reality in China. Sure money isn't everything, but putting food on the table is a non-negotiable part of life. Patriotism won't put food on the table and in America, if they can get a job in their field and if that field is still in a hiring frenzy, then so be it.

Maybe things will change in the future and I certainly hope they will, but from what I've seen that's just how some things are for now.
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This perspective is woefully out of date; it belongs in 1993, not 2023.
It sounds like the kind of thing a boomer would say and refuses to believe the world has changed since they were back in college; those Chinese 'sea turtles' are often the high achievers who grew frustrated with the bamboo ceiling and having to report to the Failsons and Faildaughters of Anglo elites as well as their indian
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.
A chinese migrant to the Anglosphere might justify to himself that his kids will excel over the poor students of the anglosphere and indian communities but has no answer to the bamboo ceiling that prevents his high achieving son from attaining his full potential. Every boomer i've met has given the same cop out answer as you're giving, of 'just work harder, then the white people will see and they MUST promote you!!'. It's cope. And pathetic.

If a Chinese is forced to end up doing Meituan or working for their parents, at least they got their own their own honest merit rather than being outright robbed of opportunities as many Chinese in the anglosphere are experiencing with Ivy League admissions. The primary Sea Turtles, the ones who are robbed of their opportunities and thunder by the inept anglo elites, will go back to China and inevitably become outright successes as we have seen over and over and over again.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671909331418374144

It occurred to me that China playing up this diplomatic gaffe by the smile Biden is a handy way to tell the world stage that the USG is 'non agreement capable', that China is the adult and tried to promote dialogue and peace, so that if there is a conflict, those standing with the americans will be seen as the aggressors.
 
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