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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Was it not Obama who proposed the G2 to restrain China as part of his pivot to Asia, not Trump?
I don't know if he threw that out there but some pundits were talking about it. It never happened because remember Japan wanted to be the only non-white member of the G-7 so they could think they were white. That's how the G-20 was born so it kept the G-7 looking more important.

The irony...

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Because the G-7 looks too white, they invited non-whites to the party so it didn't look like the white elites were speaking for everyone in the world.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
I feel very strongly about this and we can debate better in the Soft Power Thread that this is no soft power
German is not a hard power next to other countries but it ranked higher in one of metrics. I will even extend that most of Europe is not hard power but most countries will avoid antagonizing it beyond certain point due to its soft power. It has very extensive integration with so called global south. Its much more at people level. Ex-Soviet Union was not open to foreign influences thats why it was removed.
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As long as American hard power reigns supreme, they can threaten sanctions to force your target to simply shut you up and close your stage down.
Its whole package of countries like Europe, Canada, Australia and US where most people of world want to be part of it including the people of leftist governments of Latin America. They vote one way according to populism but go another way with there feets.
Countries like Japan, Korea or Vietnam not have much choice. they will continue to export and invest in countries of West as demographic flow and that demographic flow integration with global south is the market.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
German is not a hard power next to other countries but it ranked higher in one of metrics. I will even extend that most of Europe is not hard power but most countries will avoid antagonizing it beyond certain point due to its soft power. It has very extensive integration with so called global south. Its much more at people level. Ex-Soviet Union was not open to foreign influences thats why it was removed.
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What does "a hard power" mean? Countries are not described as hard or soft powers; the question is what apects of their powers are considered hard and which soft. As I can tell, building an attractive education system requires the funds and economic hard power to do so. Don't fall into some trap of thinking that going to war makes you a hard power and being civil with country-developing makes you a soft power. No such division exists. Here, you're using "soft power" and "hard power" in a wayyyy different way than anyone else.
Its whole package of countries like Europe, Canada, Australia and US where most people of world want to be part of it including the people of leftist governments of Latin America. They vote one way according to populism but go another way with there feets.
Countries like Japan, Korea or Vietnam not have much choice. they will continue to export and invest in countries of West as demographic flow and that demographic flow integration with global south is the market.
Economic hard power used to develop your country to high living standard = hard power. Having a really shitty economy and a terrible standard of living but people still want to move to your country because of cultural appeal would be soft power, though I haven't seen such an example.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Economic hard power used to develop your country to high living standard = hard power. Having a really shitty economy and a terrible standard of living but people still want to move to your country because of cultural appeal would be soft power, though I haven't seen such an example.
so your definition of soft power is having poor economics but still people moving to your country. than most of Europe and US is still a soft power. I don think the infrastructure is as modern as some of the countries in Mideast and Asia and cost of living with poor safety has certainly made it less attractive. Wealth is much easy to be made in developing world if good business skills. West is now attracting who already have certain level of wealth and Skills. focus on individual wealth and skills. It is not like 70s and 80s. major cities in the world have very identical products and services available. A recent Vietnamese emigre can easily be richer than 99% of Americans.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
so your definition of soft power is having poor economics but still people moving to your country. than most of Europe and US is still a soft power. I don think the infrastructure is as modern as some of the countries in Mideast and Asia and cost of living with poor safety has certainly made it less attractive. Wealth is much easy to be made in developing world if good business skills. West is now attracting who already have certain level of wealth and Skills. focus on individual wealth and skills. It is not like 70s and 80s. major cities in the world have very identical products and services available. A recent Vietnamese emigre can easily be richer than 99% of Americans.
This is pretty far off from the correct discussion, which there is a thread for but it's not here. The US and Europe have higher standards of living than the vast majority of places in the world; there are some current woes but let's not pretend that they're totally crap and falling apart. Western countries still have the majority of hard power amongst them whether it be military or economy. But because of China's rise and their relative decline, their ability to attract and retain talent has in recent terms, waned.

My definition of soft power is the ability to influence world events without any carrot or stick approach, both of which require firm hard power. It is to simply make people like you for who you are and therefore make concessions to you and I'm not seeing that anywhere. Everywhere I see a concession made, it was with hard power's carrot and/or stick.
 

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
China will never have sci-fi. It's literally trying to speak western while talking Chinese. It's like westerners using Chinese lettes for tatoos or ornament. To people in China it's fun. To people who grew up with sci-fi it's stupid. Because it's the difference between needing to know the curse and avoiding it.

A most excellent critique.

I agree, that Chinese will never have sci-fi like the Western version.

It was a story in the Chuang Tzu.

Forget all the details, but some guy was walking around, saw this farmer getting water like old school.

So the guy talks to the farmer, saying you could build some contraption to make this fetching of water more easy.

The farmer rejected that advice outright. If I use a machine, I will develop a machine heart/mind. Farmer wants to be natural with the way of the Tao.

The guy was stunned. Seemed like the farmer was right. Machines and working with them, will lead to machine hearts and minds.

Later the guy returned to somewhere, spoke to his master, and told of this story of the farmer he met.

The master disapproved. He said to the guy, if you are already one with the Tao, no machine can change anything.

And that was 2500 years ago.

Chinese sci-fi will not be a paradigm shift.

Chinese sci-fi will just be like Tang poetry, or Sung songs, or Ming novels.

So Chinese sci-fi is going to be a little weird. It will be a mix of Confucian-Marxism-Taoism-and-mathematics.

Western sci-fi is trying to explore the future.

Chinese sci-fi is like 2500 years ago, and the Chinese like it!

:D
 
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enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well I'm just not a fan of Liu Cixin's works. I just feel that the Chinese sci-fi genre is still in its relative infancy, and there are better Chinese style sci-fi stories that are yet to be told. Just please, no more CJ7, cartoon kangaroos, and flying planets. Hopefully future writers can start telling some more mature stories. Having said that, at least the Chinese cinema is trying out new concepts. The sci-fi movies in South Korea and Russia are shameless derivatives of Hollywood films. The sci-fi movies in Bollywood are just comical.

Don't confuse the movie with the book (actually a short story). The movie has an entirely different plotline to make it an action blockbuster, ngl I enjoyed it even though some parts is a little cringy. The original story has a much more mature tone, mostly exploring the concept of wondering earth and it's implications to our civilization..... and politically take a massive dump on populism.

Also the concept of wondering earth isn't as ridiculous as you may think. Yes, even with fusion energy, all the deuterium in the ocean is not even enough to give earth 1m/s of delta-v, but what if human learnt to fuse heavier atoms? Entire Earth mass can be used as fuel and reaction mass, burn off 0.1% of earth mass can give us enough delta-v to leave the system.

Is it ridiculous? of course it is. Is it physically impossible? No it is not, hell of a lot more plausible than star trek teleporter, as least it doesn't requires Heisenberg compensator....
 
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