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Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
so are the UAE and the Saudis and turkey, yet these nations exhibit more spine and political autonomy when dealing with the US. The slavishness of these Koreans and Japanese towards western nations and the harshness towards fellow Asians is very Indian of them.

Re Jackson Wang, are Western firms ready for when Chinese Zoomers grow up with memories of how the West behaved towards them during COVID? Small wonder western luxury companies are failing to Chinese companies in recent years.
This is indeed a problem specific to East Asian cultures.

The cultures of the Middle East tolerate Western hegemony and pay the necessary tribute to avoid being regime changed, but you can tell they don't like it. Not at all. The reason organizations like ISIS, the Taliban, and Al-Qaeda can survive is because Middle Eastern cultures are fundamentally sympathetic to their goals. The House of Saudi Arabia is itself rumored to be a sponsor. Deep down, they prefer their own culture over the West's, and yearn to return to a world in which the West is contained in its own corner of the world.

By contrast, smaller East Asian cultures, especially Japan and South Korea, don't just tolerate Western hegemony - they prefer it. In their minds, the choice is between Western hegemony and Chinese hegemony, and they'd much rather have the former because it'd be shameful and terrible to have what they perceive to be an "inferior" people like the Chinese lord it over them. This is, of course, because of decades, if not centuries, of brain washing in which they've been convinced that China <<< West. Being ruled by the white man is much better for prestige and face, qualities over which most East Asians obsess.

It will take a sea change in geopolitical dynamics before countries like Japan and South Korea can become reliable partners to China. Indeed, Japan may be loyal to the West all the way until the end, seeing itself as the regional extension of the "superior" Western system and therefore the only possible leader of East Asia - up to the moment it all collapses.

Defeating the West definitively is a prerequisite to either country having a change of heart. With Japan, it's probably not enough to do even that, because they'll continue to think they ought to be the leader of East Asia all the way until China crushes them in a major conflict.
 

luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
The reason Japan and South Korea will work with the US is because China is "eating their lunch," so to speak.

Advanced East Asian economies compete over the same industries - high tech., advanced manufacturing, ship building, IT, media exports, etc. China is beating Japan - and increasingly South Korea - in all of these domains. They're losing market share and orders. Their economic life lines are more and more dependent on supplying components and tools to Chinese companies, and with the shift to self-sufficiency under Xi Jinping due to national security concerns, even that line is being cut.

This is why they will fall in line behind the US - because it's in their interest to do so. China is beating them, and they have no way to address that but to knock China down, because they have neither the market size nor the capital to compete with China directly. They need the US to sabotage China, because otherwise they're toast.

Now, is there an alternative to what they're doing? Sure. They could reach an agreement with China over establishing a collaborative supply chain, where China agrees to depend on them for certain products and components, and vice versa, so they'll always have industries that they "own" and which China largely stays out of. But to do that, they'd have to abandon their alliances with the West, first, otherwise they can never be reliable components in a Chinese supply chain.

That, however, they will never do. You won't ever convince the Korean or Japanese public that they should rather be friends with China, than the West. This is because their societies are deeply infiltrated by Western media and intelligence. They have already convinced themselves of "China bad."

So they will march to the drum of inevitable war and be the front line soldiers of future Western aggression.
China should
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off the east coast of Japan. If they try something funny, like nuclear armament, simply detonate and allow the resulting radioactive tsunami to wipe that particular too-stupid-to-live island off the map.

This is only a problem if your thinking is limited, unlike the Chinese government's.

Weapons are being built up that can not just defend the country but also counterattack and occupy the enemies. Alliances are forged with countries that will supply all of China's resource need, and be front line soldiers in great numbers should a war begin as well.

So what if American aggression exists? If not for German aggression, America and the USSR would never have become global powers. And in the same way, putting down American aggression will make China's return to the world stage complete.

In the midst of chaos there is also opportunity. When America attempts to invade China's east, it will cause the biggest smokescreen in the world. Therefore, when China uses the smokescreen as a cover to neutralize Japan and Korea, no one in the global community will question Chinese actions.
I agree, China needs rivals and challenges to unify its people, learn new lessons, and move its civilization forward. An easy, unearned victory will only lead them to the same arrogance and stagnation now seen in the West.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Dunno why everyone is getting so worked up that Japan and S.Korea prefer US domination over Chinese domination. Everyone loves a weak neighbour and a strong far away protector. On the other hand, nobody likes a strong neighbor

But, but, why does Mexico like the US then? Well, maybe because the US is so overwhelming powerful that everyone is toeing the line, especially its close neighbors.

So what's the solution for China, then? Just get more powerful. More economy, more military. After you do those 2 things, watch as the American Empire crumbles in front of your very eyes without even having to lift a finger against it
 

Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
By contrast, smaller East Asian cultures, especially Japan and South Korea, don't just tolerate Western hegemony - they prefer it. In their minds, the choice is between Western hegemony and Chinese hegemony, and they'd much rather have the former because it'd be shameful and terrible to have what they perceive to be an "inferior" people like the Chinese lord it over them. This is, of course, because of decades, if not centuries, of brain washing in which they've been convinced that China <<< West. Being ruled by the white man is much better for prestige and face, qualities over which most East Asians obsess.
Yes, effectively these Koreans and Japanese have internalised the myth of racial superiority that white european/anglo cultures claim to have over non white cultures. You see this as well in taiwan and you also see this even amongst white caucasoid western cultures for eg whilst studying in Copenhagen, i once dated a Polish girl who tried her hardest to be Danish, was ashamed of her Polish background and would refuse to speak Polish, only Danish and had her phone language in Danish, and i discovered this was because western europeans look down on the migrant eastern european workers.
You see this toxicity as well when someone like professional dweeb drew pavlou, a greek/cypriot/maltese Australian who apes the fears of the Anglo ruling class so as to become accepted by beating down on Chinese Australians.

Also, so much of the trump era Anglo attempt to steal Chinese tech and know-how. The CPC has final say over Chinese indigenous firms and tech, not some weak willed kowtowing millennial dweeb from shanghai (i'm obv referring to the TikTok guy)
 

Feima

Junior Member
Registered Member
By contrast, smaller East Asian cultures, especially Japan and South Korea, don't just tolerate Western hegemony - they prefer it. In their minds, the choice is between Western hegemony and Chinese hegemony, and they'd much rather have the former because it'd be shameful and terrible to have what they perceive to be an "inferior" people like the Chinese lord it over them. This is, of course, because of decades, if not centuries, of brain washing in which they've been convinced that China <<< West. Being ruled by the white man is much better for prestige and face, qualities over which most East Asians obsess.

It's not just brainwashing. It is them seeing actual outcomes. By quirk of history, China was weak when they encountered an ascendant West. As a consequence China suffered the century of humiliation. Imagine: Had the Ming not ban oceangoing activities, and the little Portugese and Spanish boats ran into fleets like Cheng He's, history would've taken a very different turn.

Farther back in time, Joseon Seonjo (朝鮮宣祖) (1552-1608) wrote the following during the time of Ming:

设使以外国言之,中国父母也。我国与日本同是外国也,如子也。以言其父母之于子,则我国孝子也,日本贼子也。父母之于子,虽止于慈,岂有爱其贼子同于孝子之理乎?

Rough translation: "Joseon and Japan are like sons of China. But Joseon is a filial son, and Japan is a rebellious thieving son. China should love Joseon more than she loves Japan." This was written when Japan invaded the Korean peninsula during the time of Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
 

9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
Dunno why everyone is getting so worked up that Japan and S.Korea prefer US domination over Chinese domination. Everyone loves a weak neighbour and a strong far away protector. On the other hand, nobody likes a strong neighbor

But, but, why does Mexico like the US then? Well, maybe because the US is so overwhelming powerful that everyone is toeing the line, especially its close neighbors.

So what's the solution for China, then? Just get more powerful. More economy, more military. After you do those 2 things, watch as the American Empire crumbles in front of your very eyes without even having to lift a finger against it
America has never suffered an existential loss in its short brief history before, its all been easy wins on the way up.

The greatest concern is the US will take the whole world down with it MAD
 

j17wang

Senior Member
Registered Member
Dunno why everyone is getting so worked up that Japan and S.Korea prefer US domination over Chinese domination. Everyone loves a weak neighbour and a strong far away protector. On the other hand, nobody likes a strong neighbor

But, but, why does Mexico like the US then? Well, maybe because the US is so overwhelming powerful that everyone is toeing the line, especially its close neighbors.

So what's the solution for China, then? Just get more powerful. More economy, more military. After you do those 2 things, watch as the American Empire crumbles in front of your very eyes without even having to lift a finger against it
Mexico does not like the US. Based on my discussions with people in mexico city, many would hope to see the 50% of mexico illegally stolen by the US be rightfully restored to its rightful owners.

However, mexico does not have the capabilities to achieve such restoration... for now.
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
America has never suffered an existential loss in its short brief history before, its all been easy wins on the way up.

The greatest concern is the US will take the whole world down with it MAD
I suspect that the pentagon knows this and are trying to reign in The Biden administration to no avail. I mean given the recruitment difficulties they are currently having right now along with having sent much of their weapons to Ukraine whilst having to take a while to restock on those weapons, the USA has seen what a true fight is like with Russia and ultimately would prefer not to have their troops at the forefront because in the face of all those Russian shells and general fighting ability without having the airforce as a crutch (you know how the USA prefers to fight), they are simply no better then anyone else. Really, the USA always prefers a quick and easy fight that can earn lots of money and foster the loser with a vast amount of debt to compensate for any losses. But given that should the USA run from this fight in Ukraine which they operate in every way except the name, one must imagine the damage this will have on their credibility, not only on themselves, but in the puppets in the EU. There is no way out for the USA in this situation without taking a huge hit and I believe the longer the drags out, expect the USA to look for any way they can to chicken out of the fight, because you never know if one the US stock of weapons become low enough, Russia might give the USA a taste of what Hiroshima went through once Putins patience runs out which one hopes won’t happen but given how there have been sightings of those Russian destroyers in the Atlantic, one mustn’t discount the possibility that one day, Russians tolerance will run thin after how much the collective west have been dancing on their red lines like a bunch of clowns without any clue as to how screwed they will be the moment all hell breaks loose.


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theforgotten0007

New Member
Registered Member
US and China's neighbours actually behave very similarly to one another if you look close enough. Both can't afford NOT to trade with the larger partner, both have to deal with the terms of the larger partner reluctantly. S.koreans may not like Chinese or Japanese but even their president couldn't be arsed to receive Pelosi during her final stop. He knows he can't afford it.

The key difference being Asians are a mono-ethnic bunch with no common lingua franca which makes migrating into the stronger country more difficult.
 
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