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9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
There's precedent here too. KAL 007 was carrying US congressman Larry McDonald and got shot down by Russia anyhow when their plane invaded Sakhalin and Kamchatka. They didn't do jack shit.
KAL007 was officially blamed it on the pilot forgetting to set from magnetic north to true north after takeoff.... back then the 747 didnt have gps.... no systems like IRU/IRS/ADIRU etc

There likely was a spyplane that was shadowing the 007, so USSR was in the right to shoot but the accident was it shot down the wrong plane.... likely the captain of the 747 didnt even know and wasnt in on it
 

GodRektsNoobs

Junior Member
Registered Member
KAL007 was officially blamed it on the pilot forgetting to set from magnetic north to true north after takeoff.... back then the 747 didnt have gps.... no systems like IRU/IRS/ADIRU etc

There likely was a spyplane that was shadowing the 007, so USSR was in the right to shoot but the accident was it shot down the wrong plane.... likely the captain of the 747 didnt even know and wasnt in on it
What makes you think that US won't blame it on a scapegoat this time as well?

EDIT: to be honest, pretty sure Pelosi herself is the scapegoat here LMAO, but surely they can use a scapegoat for the death of a scapegoat?
 
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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The arms sale has been ongoing for decades because CN can't still deter US from doing that. So China can't react in a provocative manner.


US selling arms to TW should be the thing that should invoke strong passion from all Chinese people that have their heads not stuck in Uncle Sam's fat behind.


I'am expecting a big military exercise in TW ADIZ and in SCS. I don't think PLAAF will overfly Taiwan or shoot down Pelosi plane.
What type of "advanced weaponry" has the U.S. sold or is selling to Taiwan? Have they ever sold their most advanced missile systems? Patriot missiles? THAAD, Abrams tanks, F-35 planes, why not place a U.S. military base in Taiwan to really protect the island from the Red Commies. I could go on and on to debunk your theory that it's only China that's somehow fearful of the U.S. when the situation equally applies to both, and not because the Chinese fears the U.S. in the past. Their decision was and is based from a simple calculus that going to war with the U.S. with the strength China had was simply dumb and idiotic. There's no bravery in committing action against a superior force unless there's no alternative or that the existence of China is under severe jeopardy. That's called THINKING.
 

escobar

Brigadier
What type of "advanced weaponry" has the U.S. sold or is selling to Taiwan? Have they ever sold their most advanced missile systems? Patriot missiles? THAAD, Abrams tanks, F-35 planes, why not place a U.S. military base in Taiwan to really protect the island from the Red Commies.
The type of "advanced weaponry" has the U.S. sold or is selling to Taiwan will not matter the day CN can seized the arms US is sending to Taiwan and US can't do anything. This will have more repercussion than preventing Pelosi from going to TW. the day CN could deter US from sending arms to TW, no one will care if Biden himself want to visit TW
I could go on and on to debunk your theory that it's only China that's somehow fearful of the U.S. when the situation equally applies to both, and not because the Chinese fears the U.S. in the past.
US also fearfull but the situation certainly not equally applies to both.
 
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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Does the selling of LIMITED ARMS (because that's what they constitute the arms sales to Taiwan is of LIMITED FASHION) constitute an open signal to anyone with half a brain that such transactions chip away at the ONE CHINA POLICY, and moreover does the process by itself sends a strong signal to the Taiwanese, to the mainland Chinese, and to the rest of the people around the world that U.S. tacitly endorses and supports Taiwan independence? Has any of the weapon sales been delivered by a POLITICAL PERSON that's number 3 in U.S. government or any current serving U.S. government personnel, ever?

If the answers to these questions are resounding NO'S then it goes to show you that selling arms does not illicit a strong passionate emotion from either side. It's bloody annoying, but the act itself does not erode the ONE CHINA POLICY or least of all, endorses the ambition of separatists in Taiwan for independence.

However, with the impending visit of Pelosi to Taiwan is rightly seen and interpreted by any sane and rationale Chinese people and even outside experts as not only a very provocative move, but an act that is seen as a further validation of Taiwanese separatists aspirations of becoming an independent country. The fact that you couldn't see it from a political angle is astonishingly blind.

As Clausewitz emphatically expressed on his eponymous book "On War" war itself is a continuation of politics by other means. A political act/theater with great global attention, fanfare invites, and provokes a reaction from China that it can't and must not back down. Not at this juncture. While it's true that U.S. has been at war with China on multiple fronts: trade war/economic war, tech war. Now, the U.S. is upping up the ante into China's core red line that's Taiwan.

The Chinese government may have been less bellicose when then U.S. administration launched it's preemptive trade war, tech war etc. against China it could respond back with less emotion involved since the physical sovereignty of the country wasn't being infringed, or it's territorial integrity being breached. But the issue of Taiwan as you and I know was, is, and will be a different case. The question of response or inadequate response from the previous Chinese government or even the current one must be examined in it's proper context. Selling limited arms to Taiwan is not equal and will never be equal to a political opportunists desire to poke and test the mettle of China's core principles.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Macron is extremely irritated when just after landing in Africa made this statement. While Lavrov got welcome like Head of State in many African countries. i didnot realize it is 100 years of Anti-Western effort.
Post war peace in Europe was maintained due to Jewish influence in both West and USSR/Russia. they keep things in balance (even the first atom). now they have moved all to Israel.

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"It decided that information, energy and food were military instruments placed at the service of an imperialist continental war against Ukraine," he said.

 

supercat

Major
While we are at it, here is the Economist's "explanation why the U.S. never win a major war after WW2":

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China must response harshly otherwise it’s guaranteed that Taiwan will start pushing for independence. We all know the NeoCons want to plaster US jets circling over Taipei to humiliate China in August with the congress meeting across the global media.
The military has to plan for all contingencies. It doesn't mean that Pelosi will definitely visit Taiwan.

July 26, 2022 is the 77th anniversary of the Potsdam Proclamation, which reaffirms that Taiwan belongs to China.

While the Biden regime will pull off a stunt or two for the mid-term election, the ruling creditor/rentier oligarchy will never forgive any debt ever. According to Michael Hudson, this will eventually bring down the U.S. empire, just as it did to every empire before it, from the Roman empire to the British empire.

The U.S. is slowly becoming a third world country: if you can't prevent it, just legalize it:cool:
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Does the selling of LIMITED ARMS (because that's what they constitute the arms sales to Taiwan is of LIMITED FASHION) constitute an open signal to anyone with half a brain that such transactions chip away at the ONE CHINA POLICY, and moreover does the process by itself sends a strong signal to the Taiwanese, to the mainland Chinese, and to the rest of the people around the world that U.S. tacitly endorses and supports Taiwan independence? Has any of the weapon sales been delivered by a POLITICAL PERSON that's number 3 in U.S. government or any current serving U.S. government personnel, ever?

If the answers to these questions are resounding NO'S then it goes to show you that selling arms does not illicit a strong passionate emotion from either side. It's bloody annoying, but the act itself does not erode the ONE CHINA POLICY or least of all, endorses the ambition of separatists in Taiwan for independence.

However, with the impending visit of Pelosi to Taiwan is rightly seen and interpreted by any sane and rationale Chinese people and even outside experts as not only a very provocative move, but an act that is seen as a further validation of Taiwanese separatists aspirations of becoming an independent country. The fact that you couldn't see it from a political angle is astonishingly blind.

As Clausewitz emphatically expressed on his eponymous book "On War" war itself is a continuation of politics by other means. A political act/theater with great global attention, fanfare invites, and provokes a reaction from China that it can't and must not back down. Not at this juncture. While it's true that U.S. has been at war with China on multiple fronts: trade war/economic war, tech war. Now, the U.S. is upping up the ante into China's core red line that's Taiwan.

The Chinese government may have been less bellicose when then U.S. administration launched it's preemptive trade war, tech war etc. against China it could respond back with less emotion involved since the physical sovereignty of the country wasn't being infringed, or it's territorial integrity being breached. But the issue of Taiwan as you and I know was, is, and will be a different case. The question of response or inadequate response from the previous Chinese government or even the current one must be examined in it's proper context. Selling limited arms to Taiwan is not equal and will never be equal to a political opportunists desire to poke and test the mettle of China's core principles.
You have fallen for his obvious trolling bait and is making a bit of a meal of explaining a very simply thing because you accepted his loaded and nonsensical preconditions.

The simply reason China has not reacted strongly against continuing US arms sales to Taiwan is because China is not the one trying to unilaterally and fundamentally change the status quo.

Arms sales are tolerated because that is the status quo.

Pelosi’s visit is not tolerated because it would be a significant change to the status quo.

That is the fundamental difference between these two activities and why China reacts so strongly to one while not the other.
 
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