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pmc

Major
Registered Member
Overbom said:
Turkey got nothing. This is the same sort of the deal that another member recently wanted for China to make with Philippines which was dismantled piece by piece by other members

So lets go at and see what everyone achieved in this big "win" for Turkey..

Sweden-Finland:
Permanently joining NATO (unless you think that Turkey alone can boot them out afterwards..). I dont think its necessary to explain the significance of it so I think we can all agree that this is biggest thing on the table (which was won by Sweden-Finland)



Turkey:
"sweden/finland will lift arms embargo"
Temporary. Next day the West could do an arm embargo for Turkey's bad human rights..

"both will support turkey on pkk, stop support to ypg"
Temporary. Next day, we support ppkk and yypg and whatever alphabet soup terrorist organisation we secretly fund

"they will amend their laws on terrorism"
Temporary. They can amend them back...

"they will share intel with each other"
Temporary. "Turkey has Chinese Huawei. Sorry, no cookie intel for you"

"they will extradite terror suspects"
Temporary. "We don't trust Turkey's court system to be fair. No extradition for you" + strategically irrelevant

"finland and sweden will support turkey’s participation to eu’s PESCO"
The only that could be permanent, but there are many others EU countries against it so at the moment I am leaning towards Temporary to Nothing

"turkey, finland and sweden will establish a permanent joint mechanism to consult on justice, security and intelligence"
Temporary. Because it says it is "permanent" doesn't mean it is permanent... And in any case, it is a mechanism to consult (so, straight into the garbage bin)
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This permanent. Once Russian airspace closed ( only Turkish airline will expand) and Europeans have to sign deals with Qatar and Azerbaijan for Gas. It's all Turkey.
 
horse

horse

Colonel
Registered Member
bluetree700 said:
This is foolish, 20-30 years ago it would have been ridiculous to imagine China as a superpower. Ridicule and mockery of geopolitical foes who actually have the capability of exceeding you in the future is exactly how America landed itself in its current position. What Kishore is saying is entirely correct, insofar as the attention of China and America are on each other, just like the Soviet Union and America before there.
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Do you realize that the Indians has been telling themselves this same general message since the 1950's?

That is why the Indians got some sort of weird obsession with China.

When both countries started fresh back then with new political leadership, they were roughly equals.

By the 1980's, China had pulled ahead. This really rankled the Indians because the Chinese went through the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, and even fought a war against the Americans, and even after all of that, they were ahead in development.

Now, it is kind of unthinkable. The gap is too wide now.
 
O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Important news.
Iran and Argentina have formally applied to join BRICS

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Iran has submitted an application to become a member of the group of emerging economies known as the BRICS, an Iranian official said on Monday.
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Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said separately that Argentina had also applied to join the group. Argentinian officials could not be reached for immediate comment.
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B

bluetree700

New Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
Let's go with 20 years ago from your figure. 20 years ago, June 2002.

Here's the differences.

At the time China had 2 domestic semiconductor fabs only 2-3 years behind the leading edge (SMIC, Huahong). Does India?

At the time China already had domestic search engine (Baidu), social media (Tencent) and e-commerce (Alibaba). Does India?

At the time China had a true fully indigenous 4th gen fighter: J-10. Does India?
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This is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, there is no "endgame" where China can win forever and eternally. Geopolitical games never end, and rivals will never stop emerging. You can cherry pick however many comparisons you want at whatever point in time you want, which is in fact what all China-haters do when they downplay anything China does, but the fact of the matter is that India does have the prerequiste population and demographics to challenge China in 50, 100, 200 years. Fostering a willing ignorance and sense of superiority now toward any country will coalesce into a psychological inability of future generations decades in the future to even comprehend the idea that "shithole" countries would have anything worth learning from.
 
ficker22

ficker22

Senior Member
Registered Member
bluetree700 said:
This is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, there is no "endgame" where China can win forever and eternally. Geopolitical games never end, and rivals will never stop emerging. You can cherry pick however many comparisons you want at whatever point in time you want, which is in fact what all China-haters do when they downplay anything China does, but the fact of the matter is that India does have the prerequiste population and demographics to challenge China in 50, 100, 200 years. Fostering a willing ignorance and sense of superiority now toward any country will coalesce into a psychological inability of future generations decades in the future to even comprehend the idea that "shithole" countries would have anything worth learning from.
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That is until the subcontinent gets conquered again for the 717626th time by outside folks.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
bluetree700 said:
This is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, there is no "endgame" where China can win forever and eternally. Geopolitical games never end, and rivals will never stop emerging. You can cherry pick however many comparisons you want at whatever point in time you want, which is in fact what all China-haters do when they downplay anything China does, but the fact of the matter is that India does have the prerequiste population and demographics to challenge China in 50, 100, 200 years. Fostering a willing ignorance and sense of superiority now toward any country will coalesce into a psychological inability of future generations decades in the future to even comprehend the idea that "shithole" countries would have anything worth learning from.
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Not necessarily, India could always collapse due to climate change and religious extremism. Then it could simply degenerate into feudal conditions. This would be a worst case scenario but it is possible.

India has the population, but so did China in 1920. As Chiang Kai Shek said, China has many people but they're loosely fit together like myriad grains of sand. This fits well for India.

Until India has a political and ideological awakening beyond the old confines of religion and caste, it will constrain itself. That is what happened for China.
 
O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
bluetree700 said:
but the fact of the matter is that India does have the prerequiste population and demographics to challenge China in 50, 100, 200 years
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50, 100, 200 years...
Do you even know that we will be in the start-middle of the 4th industrial revolution in at most a decade???

And you are here talking about India utilising its population and demographics to challenge China in 50, 100, 200 years..

My question is, do you have any idea how quickly technology is advancing? And also what direction is technology advancing to? It definetely isn't on employing billions of people working in manufacturing or/and in low value services
 
B

Bob Smith

Junior Member
Registered Member
bluetree700 said:
This is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, there is no "endgame" where China can win forever and eternally. Geopolitical games never end, and rivals will never stop emerging. You can cherry pick however many comparisons you want at whatever point in time you want, which is in fact what all China-haters do when they downplay anything China does, but the fact of the matter is that India does have the prerequiste population and demographics to challenge China in 50, 100, 200 years. Fostering a willing ignorance and sense of superiority now toward any country will coalesce into a psychological inability of future generations decades in the future to even comprehend the idea that "shithole" countries would have anything worth learning from.
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This is a public forum where anyone can post their thoughts, not policy makers within the Chinese government so it's irrelevant where we think India is going to be in the future. Chinese haters are infinite within the English speaking world where they denigrate all of China's advancements while the gap gets smaller every year between the US and China. Why do you care if people poke fun of an overly arrogant India that screams at the top of their lungs that they're within 10 years of being a superpower every year?
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
bluetree700 said:
This is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, there is no "endgame" where China can win forever and eternally. Geopolitical games never end, and rivals will never stop emerging. You can cherry pick however many comparisons you want at whatever point in time you want, which is in fact what all China-haters do when they downplay anything China does, but the fact of the matter is that India does have the prerequiste population and demographics to challenge China in 50, 100, 200 years. Fostering a willing ignorance and sense of superiority now toward any country will coalesce into a psychological inability of future generations decades in the future to even comprehend the idea that "shithole" countries would have anything worth learning from.
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I'm curious, what exactly do you think is your demographic advantage against China? China has more arable lands than India and thus can always support a larger population.
 
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