Miscellaneous News

solarz said:

That's a hilariously bad example. Why would China want to fight the US directly in Vietnam? All China did was to warn the US not to attack North Vietnam, and the US never did. If anything, that's a demonstration of Chinese power.

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What the US is truly omnipotent at is their ability to push their historical revisionism as the prevailing narrative such that even its critics are often successfully gaslighted.

China standing by during Vietnam War becomes a show of American might cowing China rather than US war strategists nervous of repeating MacArthur's Yalu blunder and not taking China's warnings seriously. As a result, the US never directly invaded North Vietnam.

WWII becomes a tale of brave America rushing to save its European brethren ("The New World coming in rescue of the Old" as Britain's Bengal Famine inducing then PM would gush) rather than the reality of the US solely declaring war on Japan and only being drawn into Europe because Hitler declared war on it.

The Cuban Missile Crisis becomes a story of the US resisting courageously putting its foot down against Communism on its doorstep rather than as a successful counter-play by the Soviets to get the US to withdraw its missiles in Turkey.

texx1 said:

By use words as "Chinese are cucks lol" in your reply to my post. You were covertly trying to portray my position as far more critical of PRC than it was. It's a potentially useful strategy to get a rise out of posters holding contradictory positions against the predominant view of this forum.

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Being a Chinese, I certainly feel like a "cuck", hearing bunch of your rants about "left-leaning CPC liberals".

texx1 said:

Here is another reality. Given the current advantages US still holds in military, economy, media, technology and alliances, US could afford to make mistakes. It's simply too early to realistically talk about US receiving its deserved comeuppance.

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Oh, really. If you can still say something like this, than there really isn't any possibility of effective communication. You act like you're mature and firm. But you interpretation of what I meant by "consequences" was akin to some "devine retribution" ("deserved comeuppance" as termed by you) which reeks of moral presupposition.

To make things very clear, I presupposes NO overlaying moral structure, when I talk about "causality" and "consequence". I don't consider any of those consequences as "deserved" or not "deserved", I only consider those as consequences, in other words, causal-effects.
Example: You, USA only has a one hundred dollars, you spent 95 dollars it on "A", and getting only 10 dollars back. And then, you realize that you actually needed to spend 50 dollars on "B" in order to get "C". Now, unless you can come up with the 50 dollars (which you don't have, you have only 15 dollars), you simply can't spend 50 dollars on "B" to get "C".

Simple as that.

Now I don't know what you actually mean by this "deserved comeuppance", because in order for this term to make sense, you have to explain your Moral System, which defines what "deserved" means, and also differentiate the word "comeuppance" from "consequences".

Overbom said:

Whatever.
"China’s reputation is at stake.

This is about trust, reliability and decisions on long-term investments.

Every day trade amounts to €2 billion.

trade, €330 million.

A prolongation of the war and more disruption to the world economy is in no-one’s interest."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1509885097041932310

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She has no clue that trade is a two-way avenue and normal trade is a win-win situation that benfits both sides? Anyway, the above reminds me of this meme:

On the other hand, 1/3 of Russia's crude oil export goes to China.

In other news, the hypocrisy of the U.S. stinks to high heaven.

China and Iran to strengthen cooperation.

siegecrossbow said:

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No wonder the media landscape in America is FUBAR with the American people. They can't tell who's telling the truth unless you're already on the political camp of either the Democrats or the Republicans, the truth is where you're political ideological team lies which is pretty sad.

Jingle Bells said:

Being a Chinese, I certainly feel like a "cuck", hearing bunch of your rants about "left-leaning CPC liberals".

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AFAIK, in PRC political terms, liberals are right leaning, not left leaning (自由派算右). I have to say my so-called "rants" are relatively mild compared to what I have read in Chinese domestic social media and Chinese military forums. Criticisms of CCP liberals are pretty common in China.

Jingle Bells said:

Oh, really. If you can still say something like this, than there really isn't any possibility of effective communication. You act like you're mature and firm. But you interpretation of what I meant by "consequences" was akin to some "devine retribution" ("deserved comeuppance" as termed by you) which reeks of moral presupposition.

To make things very clear, I presupposes NO overlaying moral structure, when I talk about "causality" and "consequence". I don't consider any of those consequences as "deserved" or not "deserved", I only consider those as consequences, in other words, causal-effects.
Example: You, USA only has a one hundred dollars, you spent 95 dollars it on "A", and getting only 10 dollars back. And then, you realize that you actually needed to spend 50 dollars on "B" in order to get "C". Now, unless you can come up with the 50 dollars (which you don't have, you have only 15 dollars), you simply can't spend 50 dollars on "B" to get "C".

Simple as that.

Now I don't know what you actually mean by this "deserved comeuppance", because in order for this term to make sense, you have to explain your Moral System, which defines what "deserved" means, and also differentiate the word "comeuppance" from "consequences".

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Over the years in the forum, I have read numerous posts mocking the moral hypocrisy of US government deserved or otherwise. Members often liked to express outrage over policies and conducts of US administrations even when some of them could arguably be considered as legitimate but wily.

From your posts so far, you strikes me as someone with strong opinions regarding US so I assumed you would probably enjoy a certain degree of schadenfreude at US's fall from power. Hence, I chose to use the word comeuppance instead of consequence. Nonetheless, I still maintain my position that US advantages would delay consequences of its mistakes from catching up for a long time.

texx1 said:

AFAIK, in PRC political terms, liberals are right leaning, not left leaning (自由派算右). I have to say my so-called "rants" are relatively mild compared to what I have read in Chinese domestic social media and Chinese military forums. Criticisms of CCP liberals are pretty common in China.



Over the years in the forum, I have read numerous posts mocking the moral hypocrisy of US government deserved or otherwise. Members often liked to express outrage over policies and conducts of US administrations even when some of them could arguably be considered as legitimate but wily.

From your posts so far, you strikes me as someone with strong opinions regarding US so I assumed you would probably enjoy a certain degree of schadenfreude at US's fall from power. Hence, I chose to use the word comeuppance instead of consequence. Nonetheless, I still maintain my position that US advantages would delay consequences of its mistakes from catching up for a long time.

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Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with some Chinese people's attitude towards "CPC 自由派". But I don't think anyone who is not a all-out indiscriminate hawk is necessarily a "CPC 自由派". I think a lot of Chinese are essentially patriotic and agree that unilateral and decisive military action should be used at opportune moment. But the only difference is how do we decern what is "opportune".

As for "comeuppance", you don't need to feed into my emotions. I am pretty aware of my emotions, and thus I am able to see the limitations of my intuition. Trust me, I can be as much of a hawk as you are, and even more. But I don't let myself do that, because I'm in no position of power and thus don't really have access to all the strategic intelligences, and know-how when it comes to geostrategy and statecraft.

Jingle Bells said:

Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with some Chinese people's attitude towards "CPC 自由派". But I don't think anyone who is not a all-out indiscriminate hawk is necessarily a "CPC 自由派". I think a lot of Chinese are essentially patriotic and agree that unilateral and decisive military action should be used at opportune moment. But the only difference is how do we decern what is "opportune".

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Let me clarify, I am not advocating for PRC to take militarily provocative actions against US when I said China didn't bite back hard enough. I meant China should have imposed more economic costs on US publicly to deter its aggression. For instance, PRC should have banned Sam's club for removing Xinjing products. Afterall a retail supermarket is of little significance and easily replaceable.

I see CCP liberals as a domestic hindrance for PRC to take effective actions against US. Many of them are still advocating for china to return to the old and unrealistic policy of hiding its strength and bidding its time. Appeasing US (like possible caving on audit) would only embolden it more. IMO, CCP ruling elites need to give less deference to old policies and make its strategies more adaptable to changing times (抱着祖训不改是不行的).

Jingle Bells said:

As for "comeuppance", you don't need to feed into my emotions. I am pretty aware of my emotions, and thus I am able to see the limitations of my intuition. Trust me, I can be as much of a hawk as you are, and even more. But I don't let myself do that, because I'm in no position of power and thus don't really have access to all the strategic intelligences, and know-how when it comes to geostrategy and statecraft.

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We are in a internet forum. Loosen up a little. None of us can realistically possess any valuable insider information about PRC or US. Speculating and making suggestions based on incomplete information is part of the fun.

texx1 said:

US having the most powerful military force prevented PRC from deploying its own forces to fight directly against US during Vietnam War.

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The US never crossed the 17th parallel BECAUSE of China. As a matter of fact, China sent at least one hundred thousand troops to assist North Vietnamese troops, and the US still didnt bomb China. In addition, when the South Vietnamese attempted to seize the Paracel Islands, the US wouldn't lift a finger to help them despite their pleas for help. You might want to learn how to do some basic fact checking before you assert a claim, particularly ones about history.

badoc said:

I remember the US was going to deal with China when 9/11 happened.
China took the break to prepare and moved quickly to a position that can withstand the onslaught from the US, 20 years later.

I guess $500 million for Nepal in 2022 is now a lot for the US, considering they have a $20 trillion debt.
.

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Actually the US national debt now is over $30T ... your figure $20T is very old figure