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xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member
Just look at what happened to Ukrainian GDP ever since 2014 happened. Where is this supposed wealth increase. This even neglects looking at the deeper impacts. The rise in the consumer gas price had a major impact on ordinary people in Ukraine including the poorest. Millions of Ukrainians migrated to Poland and Russia and other places.
Not that I care but you cannot really compare GDPs easily like that - Ukraine lost Crimea, Donetsk (which was a rather large industrial center), and Lugansk, meaning that the total GDP will go down regardless. And, actually, if you look at the growth stats, Ukraine has been outperforming Russia since 2016 aside from the COVID year 2020.

That being said, Ukraine does not have much future even as a part of the EU. Their demographics are atrocious (even worse than Russian ones and those are already bad with population figures essentially stagnant since the peak in the 80s), any high-tech startups or companies will be eaten by the larger companies (be it Russian or European), the industrial base that they had during the Soviet times is gone, and so on. The best-case scenario is they become an outsource center for Europe but given the bad demographics, it won't be enough to propel them even into the upper-middle-income bracket. The main resource of Ukraine is swathes of high-quality agricultural land but you cannot build a strong sustainable economy based only on agriculture because it has the lowest productivity out of all three major sectors of the economy (the other two are manufacturing and services).
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
The reason for rhetorical questions is because they don't want to rub salt into sore and bruised Western wounds.

A few hours ago I was at the bookstore looking at a book called America in Decline. This white dude walks in and glares at me like he wants me dead.
Did you buy the book?
 

xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member

Hyundai is getting bullied by Indians due to a pro-Kashmir stance that doesn't align with Indian foreign policy. Let's see how many Western journalists complain about this bullying of corporations for speaking up about human rights.
Zero because it is not authorized by their masters at the US state department. I don't feel pity for Hyundai though, making such political statements is an utterly dumb move and the reaction of Indians is understandable.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
Not that I care but you cannot really compare GDPs easily like that - Ukraine lost Crimea, Donetsk (which was a rather large industrial center), and Lugansk, meaning that the total GDP will go down regardless. And, actually, if you look at the growth stats, Ukraine has been outperforming Russia since 2016 aside from the COVID year 2020.
It is understandable Ukraine will shows its growth in positive way as much possible to attract investments and qualify for lower bond yields. but once it comes to personal wealth and health of elites and there families. than it is a very different matter. they have very good insights.
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That being said, Ukraine does not have much future even as a part of the EU. Their demographics are atrocious (even worse than Russian ones and those are already bad with population figures essentially stagnant since the peak in the 80s), any high-tech startups or companies will be eaten by the larger companies (be it Russian or European), the industrial base that they had during the Soviet times is gone, and so on. The best-case scenario is they become an outsource center for Europe but given the bad demographics, it won't be enough to propel them even into the upper-middle-income bracket. The main resource of Ukraine is swathes of high-quality agricultural land but you cannot build a strong sustainable economy based only on agriculture because it has the lowest productivity out of all three major sectors of the economy (the other two are manufacturing and services).
Rain patterns can change. and in absence of cheaper inputs. even agriculture will not sustain. They dont have French type welfare state.
Europe can try fight climate change.
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
If you looked at a map you would also see that there is the EU next door. The future is pointing towards EU not Russia.
I again looked at the map but couldnot make connection. German elites are deeply divided between East and West in there acts.
Even if Germany was Germany of past. i would still be hesitant to make such conclusion of future. they have been importing immigrants that are incompatible with the culture values of Western EU that they created. and than German economic model too much depended on trading with Asia. this internal and external contradictions at some point will create situation that they will not recover.
Russia recovered from post soviet system because there were people who had seen things of past and still has respect in society.
The person in picture is not just caucasus muslim from a poor region but system ensure that he lives past 90 years age into 21st century and his medals are known. I am not sure Ukraine or EU is prepared when less is available for them as Asia consumes more.



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