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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The problem is convincing the people of the countries that are antagonistic towards China.
That's not the problem at all. You mistakenly believe that people's beliefs influence Government's strategic policies.

In fact its the elites that can do whatever they want and the sheep (people) follow behind. China doesn't need to convince the people, China needs to convince the elites

And the elites are not convinced with the fake soft power PR. The elites are convinced by hard power.

If you notice, the West doesn't care if China is saying some harsh words. However the moment China actually sanctions politicians and businessmen, the West will immediately throw a collective fit for the "unjust" sanctions.

Western democracy isn't as democratic as you would think. Trump's "Deep State" comment should be clear enough for people to understand who is actually ruling the country
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
That's not the problem at all. You mistakenly believe that people's beliefs influence Government's strategic policies.

In fact its the elites that can do whatever they want and the sheep (people) follow behind. China doesn't need to convince the people, China needs to convince the elites

And the elites are not convinced with the fake soft power PR. The elites are convinced by hard power.

If you notice, the West doesn't care if China is saying some harsh words. However the moment China actually sanctions politicians and businessmen, the West will immediately throw a collective fit for the "unjust" sanctions.

Western democracy isn't as democratic as you would think. Trump's "Deep State" comment should be clear enough for people to understand who is actually ruling the country
I don't think you can dismiss the effect of people's influence on Government and overestimate the power of the elite.

An example is the Government policy swing of Europe towards China. Yes you can argue that the elite like German industrialists putting pressure on the new German government to not go too far against China. But how would you explain the "freezing" of EU-China investment agreement and the new Government's "toughening" stance on China? Or the seemingly suicidal act of Germany stalling Nordstream project. These act do have real damages, the stalling of the agreement is material, the German navy's "trolling" in SCS is material, the unofficial "banning" of Huawei in Europe is material.

On top of that, there is no one elite in a "democracy", there are many elites who may have opposing interests. None of them can can whatever they want but has to compromise. In the end, there is not a single one being enough for anybody to convince. A key feature of western "democracy".

All that I want to say is that, in a western "democracy", neither the elites nor the plebeians have the absolute power. It is always a tug war every day.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
But how would you explain the "freezing" of EU-China investment agreement and the new Government's "toughening" stance on China?
The freeze is by the EU Parliament which consists of elites. And they are not representatives of the people. National governments actually send their waste politicians to the EP.

These institutions are thoroughly infiltrated by the CIA. And even if these are actually representatives of the people, where do they get this propaganda against China? By the media, which consists of the elite and are also captured by the CIA.
Its elites and CIA all the way down. Don't tell me that the media are truly independent and that the CIA is not involved.


Or the seemingly suicidal act of Germany stalling Nordstream project.
By the Greens which is a CIA political party. All their positions so far are 100% following Blinken. Not a single difference can be seen between their positions and the US State Department


These act do have real damages, the stalling of the agreement is material
They can have it. I personally think that France (which will head the EU for these 6 months) will push to ratify the agreement. Even if they don't ratify, it doesn't matter for China. CAI, contrast to western propaganda, offers far more benefits to the EU than China


the German navy's "trolling" in SCS is material
If American assets are all sinkable in the SCS then the German "Navy" is nothing more than a fart on the wind.
I consider an ant walking by in front me far more "material" than the "glorious" German "Navy" sending its garbage ship in the SCS

the unofficial "banning" of Huawei in Europe is material
That's their strategic decision. "Democracy" has nothing to do with this. That's a calculated position

On top of that, there is no one elite in a "democracy", there are many elites who may have opposing interests. None of them can can whatever they want but has to compromise. In the end, there is not a single one being enough for anybody to convince. A key feature of western "democracy".
Disagree. The Deep State is far more than capable of dominating the rest of the elites. If that wasn't the case we wouldn't have Australia disregarding all of its business interests with China in order to stand with the US while gaining 0 extra benefits from it (lol at AUKUS)
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
Simple. The United States has captured European academia, media, think tanks, foreign and defense ministries and political parties to do Americas bidding, even if it causes economic harm and that involves having EU navies troll in the South China Sea, play footsie with Taiwan, and ban trade/investment. European economic interests are simply outnumbered by all the US stooges. As for “democracy”, you act as if every European election is actually European and not CIA captured “journalists” promoting and slandering political parties. Notice how pro-China Armin Laschet got BTFOed after Der Spiegel leaked scandals? Of course, CIA. US poli sci research focuses heavily on public opinion for a reason lololololol.
A truly crazy piece of work for the USA but at the same time, all these actions are the sort of actions a super power does while they are in a real decline. All these actions by these special interest group is a smoke screen to how broken things are underneath the service and if these hidden elements do nothing to fix the really problems and continue to focus on China, when a real collapse of society happen, all these nations will ultimately tear itself apart, USA and uk included and on that day if China and Russia is patient, they will come a time when these special interest groups will be hunted down and put to death in a mass. Time is not on the side of these special interest groups and their desperation for some kind of a win after the debacle that is Afghanistan is increasing month after month with no relief to be found. All they are finding right now is a United Russia and China with a new found resolve not to be force to bend their knees ever again. I for one would welcome this as their idiotic evil has caused much harm to the country I am living in so nothing but the blackest and most horrifying of fates for these evil group is entire what they deserve should they continue their activities without end
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Cold war was between US and USSR.
China was part of the Cold War too....and USSR participated in Korean War too via fighter pilots. They are all related.
Not every conflict involving one of the two should be lumped in cold war.
The most relevant conflict is the Korean War, so why not talk about it?
If you involves everyone (NK and China), then it is not finished, then why would people talk about cold war 2.0?
Korean war is part of original Cold War and Cold War 2.0. It's an unfinished war.
So don't put everything in a big mess, otherwise everything lost meaning.
Using your logic, US won the Cold War, so North Korea (a former Soviet satellite) should be licking American boots right now. But North Korea still hates US.... why? Because Korean War is not over yet.
For NK and US, it was a stalemate as both of them started and stopped at the same spot. China entered the war at the time when US troops were standing right at the south bank of Yalu river. China ended the war standing right at the 38 parallel line 200km south. Now you tell us what is a win.
No, the Korean War is a stalemate for China too, because
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l twice.
China's objective in that war was the 38 line, no more no less.
So why did Chinese troops occupy Seoul capital twice?
The Koreans certainly have a big say to the future of the peninsular. China as its direct neighbour certainly has a big say. But China is not US and will never be. You can rest your concern, China has lasted for thousands of years without acting like the west, and we are outlasting them.
I don't get your point. A Reunified Korea will be Vietnam 2.0 if it's reunified, an ungrateful cunt neighbor renewing territorial disputes and trying to US/West to "contain" China, playing both sides for maximum benefit. China cannot hope that South Korea will develop an independent foreign policy because they have no spine, no courage, no balls to challenge American supremacy. So the permanent division of Korea is China's best interest, unless it can unilaterally evict US completely from East Asia by force. A Seoul-led reunified Korea will only play US-China off each other for it's own self-interest, just like Vietnam is doing today.
 
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Strangelove

Colonel
Registered Member
If the robotization of most industries in China takes hold and becomes more sophisticated is the fear of population decline going to be as acute as most of us here think it would be?


Plenty of these robots in China now, and they're starting to show up in Hong Kong.

I had a cup of tea made by one at the K11 Musea shopping mall in Tsim Sha Tsui.

 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
If the robotization of most industries in China takes hold and becomes more sophisticated is the fear of population decline going to be as acute as most of us here think it would be?


Ageing population wasn’t the problem in the west, ridiculous and unsustainable social welfare programmes and ridiculous and unsustainable wealth concentrations are the real causes of western stagnation.

Western social welfare programmes drains European government budgets (military spending and tax cuts for companies and the rich in the case of America) so western governments can’t afford to invest to increase productivity. Private wealth being highly concentrated in the hands of the few is supposed to lead to more investment, but Wall Street is no longer about investment, it’s all about hype and ‘clever’ financial products that create bubbles and busts. It’s basically just a big casino now, where very little of the money being put into the stock market is used for actual honest investment and instead it’s mostly become a way for the rich to further harvest the middle classes’ remaining savings.

China fundamentally doesn’t face the same ageing population crisis because the government has never been stupid enough social welfare, so ageing population doesn’t have the same burdens on government budgets as it does for the west.

China is also not state captured by the rich. Western welfare costs are so ridiculous in large part because the whole system is rigged to give the well connected massively lucrative profits.

In the UK for example, it costs nearly £1000 per week for a care home bed in the U.K. while a lot, if not most staff in care homes are barely getting minimum wage. The profit margins must be scandalous, but funny not one single person in the entire western MSM seem to think that’s something worth looking into to give us any actual insight. Instead they all shrill about how unfair it is to ask people to pay such ridiculous costs and demand the government step in and pick up the tab.

China is going to use robotics to help reduce care costs while maintaining high quality service; and also use robots to retain the traditionally labour intensive manufacturing jobs that used to get outsourced to lower wage countries as nations gets richer and wages grow.

The golden rule with reading western MSM articles on China is to always always remember that the MSM never ever cares about China or the Chinese people, quite the opposite in fact. Thus, anything they highlight as ‘issues’ or ‘dangers’ for China are almost always just pure projective and shit stirring. Similarly, all suggestions and remedies offered up by the western MSM are at best self-serving and usually also highly damaging should China ever be stupid enough to take their shitty advice.
 
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