Miscellaneous News

Aniah said:

That's if they are willing to change. Put this way, look at American companies coming to China to do business, they have to follow our rules because it's our country. What we say goes here, not the Americans nor anyone else and if they disagree with our rules we show them the door. The situation with Africa is literally what we are doing at home but the position is switched. You are forcing yourself onto others who may agree but as we see don't. This will only ruin our relationship with other countries if we can't even show some decent respect to their sovereignty.

Click to expand...

@t2contra am sorry for saying this but you're really no different than these colonial/imperialists west that you may or may not despise. Remember, that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. What's next? Should China then impose it's political and social conditions to any of the countries that seek economic assistance and if they can't or are unwilling to follow through with their "promises" and fails to live up to their commitment China imposed on them, China should then coup their leaders for being corrupt? And if that brings social upheaval China should just simply manage those countries but first the PLAEF (People’s Liberation Army Expeditionary Force) will have to be sent to "liberate" the people from their oppressors (leaders) corruption...

Thank goodness that China is not being led by another western interloper period. The world has had enough of these missionary c..ts that have frankly warped the world’s mentality into thinking that the functions and responsibilities of the so-called Global power is to impose it's morality and civilization unto others regardless of that country's culture and history.

t2contra said:

What are your examples?

Click to expand...

Where are your examples? Provide some so people like myself can be convinced that your naive idealism has been proven to work somewhere else.

Bellum_Romanum said:

@t2contra am sorry for saying this but you're really no different than these colonial/imperialists west that you may or may not despise.

Click to expand...

Well apparently he doesn't think colonialism is the source of corruption in Africa.

Bellum_Romanum said:

Where are your examples? Provide some so people like myself can be convinced that your naive idealism has been proven to work somewhere else.

Click to expand...

Naive idealism? You're being too generous. It's simply double standards: the West can do anything, but China must be criticized over every little thing.

solarz said:

Naive idealism? You're being too generous. It's simply double standards: the West can do anything, but China must be criticized over every little thing.

Click to expand...

Well, I don't know his intentions and I like to think that his concerns are coming from a good place. I just want to give the person the benefit of the doubt.

Aniah said:

And exactly how is Africa in any way similar to Singapore? Just because one system worked well for someone does not mean it's universal. That was the whole point of that discussion. Some corruption was needed to get things done and it was the lesser of the two evils. Just go back and read some of the discussion and you will get what we are trying to say.

Click to expand...

As I said, "(I haven't paid much attention to the conversation on corruption. I just want to comment on the above sentence.)"

This means I am staying out of the Africa conversation.

I brought up Singapore to counter @solarz's view that the "harsh reality" is that corruption is often necessary to get things done in a poor country. Well, when Singapore got started, it was about as poor as a country could get; yet it developed into one of the richest cities in the world, in spite of Lee Kwan Yew's notoriously strong anti-corruption measures. So corruption is by no means necessary for economic development.

solarz said:

First of all, I didn't say corruption is necessary for development. I said I'm fine with corruption if it came with economic development and rising standards of living.

Click to expand...

No, you have been making stronger statements than that. In this comment, for example, you said "This is simply the harsh reality .... Only when society has reached a certain level of development can we begin to tackle corruption."

In other words, you appear to think that corruption is necessary in poor countries.

I mentioned Singapore as an example to the contrary: when the country got started, it was about as poor as a country could get. And yet today it is one of the richest countries in the world, in spite of Lee Kwan Yew's hostility to all corruption.

So corruption is not necessary for economic development. This is all I want to say; I am staying out of the corruption-in-Africa conversation.

Second, what do you think lobbying and political donations are? Legal corruption is still corruption.

Click to expand...

Of course US-style bribery is corruption. My view is, if a Chinese company encounters this, in the US or elsewhere, the solution is to publicize it -- and to name names. Corruption flourishes in the dark.

Finally, Singapore is only a single city of 5 million people. A small bureaucracy means everything is easier to control, which Singapore does to an almost obsessive extent.

Seriously, people need to stop bringing up Singapore as an example when discussing countries. Singapore might be a country in name, but it's missing 90% of the dynamics of managing an actual country.

Click to expand...

Singapore's existence and great wealth is a proof that you are wrong about corruption being necessary for economic development. You may not enjoy the evidence but it is clear.

@Nutrient how much money did Singapore made from the Vietnam War? How much of that factored in your industrialization? How many other country had the same opportunity as you?

Nutrient said:

No, you have been making stronger statements than that. In this comment, for example, you said "This is simply the harsh reality .... Only when society has reached a certain level of development can we begin to tackle corruption."

In other words, you appear to think that corruption is necessary in poor countries.

I mentioned Singapore as an example to the contrary: when the country got started, it was about as poor as a country could get. And yet today it is one of the richest countries in the world, in spite of Lee Kwan Yew's hostility to all corruption.

So corruption is not necessary for economic development. This is all I want to say; I am staying out of the corruption-in-Africa conversation.


Of course US-style bribery is corruption. My view is, if a Chinese company encounters this, in the US or elsewhere, the solution is to publicize it -- and to name names. Corruption flourishes in the dark.



Singapore's existence and great wealth is a proof that you are wrong about corruption being necessary for economic development. You may not enjoy the evidence but it is clear.

Click to expand...

Is Singapore corruption free now? How much money Singapore get from laundered money from its neighbors corrupt money? Example few months ago: