Miscellaneous News

What a tiring discussion. Yes China is bad and US/West good lol

Western investment to Africa -> godly. 0 coruption. Perfect and law-abiding in all aspects. Literally manna from heaven.
Provides best quality product for cheap costs. "Sustainable", "human rights respected"

Chinese Investment -> Devil. Extremely corrupt. Breaks all laws. "Why you can just be all Singapore with 0 corruption ?". Demonic plan from Xi to debt trap Africa
Worse quality, shoddy construction, no respect for Africa. "Forced labour", "shipping workers from China"

Yes, West is the best, China is the worst. Africa can now finally advance with Western investment lol

Cyclist said:

Is Singapore corruption free now? How much money Singapore get from laundered money from its neighbors corrupt money? Example few months ago:

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I say that Singapore was able to become one of the richest countries in the world despite its anti-corruption stance. That is all I'm saying.

By the way, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the link. The article says Singapore ARRESTED a corrupto. That seems good to me, at least on the surface.

Overbom said:

What a tiring discussion. Yes China is bad and US/West good lol

Western investment to Africa -> godly. 0 coruption. Perfect and law-abiding in all aspects. Literally manna from heaven.
Provides best quality product for cheap costs. "Sustainable", "human rights respected"

Chinese Investment -> Devil. Extremely corrupt. Breaks all laws. "Why you can just be all Singapore with 0 corruption ?". Demonic plan from Xi to debt trap Africa
Worse quality, shoddy construction, no respect for Africa. "Forced labour", "shipping workers from China"

Yes, West is the best, China is the worst. Africa can now finally advance with Western investment lol
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Ah, Singapore, very little corruption, not 0 corruption.
Done subtly and only between trusted parties.

Not with strangers.
Most probably they will feel offended that you thought they could be bribed.
.

Nutrient said:

No, you have been making stronger statements than that. In this comment, for example, you said "This is simply the harsh reality .... Only when society has reached a certain level of development can we begin to tackle corruption."

In other words, you appear to think that corruption is necessary in poor countries.

I mentioned Singapore as an example to the contrary: when the country got started, it was about as poor as a country could get. And yet today it is one of the richest countries in the world, in spite of Lee Kwan Yew's hostility to all corruption.

So corruption is not necessary for economic development. This is all I want to say; I am staying out of the corruption-in-Africa conversation.


Of course US-style bribery is corruption. My view is, if a Chinese company encounters this, in the US or elsewhere, the solution is to publicize it -- and to name names. Corruption flourishes in the dark.



Singapore's existence and great wealth is a proof that you are wrong about corruption being necessary for economic development. You may not enjoy the evidence but it is clear.

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Corruption is not "necessary" in poor countries, it is an inevitable side effect of a portion of society rapidly gaining wealth.

Singapore is not corruption free. It allows certain forms of legal corruption. It does not have as much issues as real countries because it's just a single city.

Nutrient said:

I say that Singapore was able to become one of the richest countries in the world despite its anti-corruption stance. That is all I'm saying.

By the way, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the link. The article says Singapore ARRESTED a corrupto. That seems good to me, at least on the surface.

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Are you sure there was no corruption when Singapore was poor? There is corruption too in China (that's what motivate President Xi anti-corruption drive), but it does not prevent China from being number 2 economy in the world right now. I think there is almost no country that can be free of corruption, a country maybe can have almost no corruption but a strong leadership is needed. Singapore had Lee Kuan Yew, even Deng Xiao Ping learnt from him, do we have that kind of leader in Africa?

That article just want to show that Singapore benefits from illicit money from its neighbors. Why no arrest for so many years? The fugitive and the family spent money while they were in Singapore and I think that at least benefit Singapore's economy and indirectly Singapore benefit from the illicit money, isn't that a form of corruption too? Another news:

There is a difference between making a headline and making a dent in managing corruption.

Singapore was corrupt as hell when she was poor, just look up Singapore corruption history.
It was only after her economy developed through light industry and government industrial policy success, Singapore started to make a dent in managing corruption. As economy developed, government revenue gradually increased, enabling them to allow more take home money for civil service, so they didn't need to seek for extra income, put in more personnel and manpower in agents and court system to actually act on the laws' stipulations. That was when it made a dent. Without the increase in pay to civil service, increase manpower and resources to actually enforce the law and put sharp teeth to the said laws, it's all headlines. Otherwise, if you still have poorly paid civil service, not enough manpower and backlogged creaky court system, you will be making a lot of headlines, but it's practically asking a bunch of foxes to guard a chicken farm, just look at India. You will get a few headlines about corruption here and there but there will be a lot who just get away because it's simply a system wide wholesale corruption, with poverty as a root cause. Law will be there just for a quota arrest. As the country gets more developed, there will be more well paid civil service and good enough , large enough resources to handle these cases on large scale. Only then it'll make a dent.

Also don't forget in the case of Singapore, the civil servants are well paid. Those higher grade officials are paid as much as the CEOs in large corporations.

Modern new copper and gold mine was just opened by Chinese company in Serbia that meets EU green standard.
If China doesn't build a mine in Africa to this standard, is China to be blamed for polluting the environment and bribing local politicians ?

Going by the Western line of thought " equal pay for equal work", African civil servants' pay compared to their Western counterpart is equivalent to the amount of work for them coming in for the day work, turn on their terminal, check first 2 emails and go home. That's how much they get paid for by Western standards. So you can't expect them to work according to your Western "expectations", unless you pay them Western salaries. So the practical question they'd ask would be something like," Honey, I'll get what you need done, and will you get what I need done as well in reciprocal, as my kid needs new shoes, and I have 7 mouths to feed?" That's the same refrain everywhere in underdeveloped countries.

Topazchen said:

There's no country in the world where bribery is legal. It's mainly elites and the bribes don't go to finance education and health initiatives. The go to the pockets of a select few who park them in tax heavens and use the funds to distort the property market in countries like Kenya

If China finds corruption reprehensible in China, it should do them same in other countries.
Corruption is an evil that should not be tolerated

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Bribery is literally legal in the United States, it's called lobbying and it's in the news all the time.