Miscellaneous News

Overbom said:

Thats not how business works. The money from such big investments will ultimately flow back to China and fill in the Gov treasury.

Then this money will be used by the Chinese Gov to invest domestically and thus increasing the income level, providing jobs, reducing taxation (example), etc

What you are asking, is for China to shoot itself on the foot for morals. This isnt going to happen. The Chinese Gov, top to bottom, is pragmatic.

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However this isnt a black or white issue. Its not like the Chinese companies like to bribe so many people before doing anything. But how can China change this on these countries?

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Contracts not won in corrupt countries can be compensated by winning in others that want clean and reliable contracts. It does not have to be squared off.

What you are asking is a soft form of imperialism, for China to get involved to local politics which would generate a backlash against it by the people there. Or for China to withdraw entirely from Africa which would devastate hundreds of thousands (millions ?) of jobs there

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LOL. I don't get your logic. But funny strawman. And how did my idea of being clean would get China involved in local politics?

This is huge, i think this is the first time China and russia sail together through tsugaru strait, correct me if im wrong
Is this direct response to the recent usn and canadian navy which sailed taiwan straits?
Message has been sent loud and clear to anglos and their vassals, they are facing a united Chinese and russian front

t2contra said:

Contracts not won in corrupt countries can be compensated by winning in others that want clean and reliable contracts. It does not have to be squared off.

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Thats not a game. In those "clean" countries they have the EU and US companies competing with their "sustainable" and "no-forced labour" bs labels. They would demolish Chinese companies because they can use their propaganda to paint Chinese companies in a bad light (which you have eaten up. Strange why you think that only China is facing these issues but whatever)

China is not competing on meaningless "clean" or "not-clean" lables. China is competing with lower prices, quick delivery, and (in recent years) quality.

Saying that you want China to drop these contracts is the same as saying that China should voluntarily lower its wealth. This isnt happening. China doesn't have the wealth that the US and EU have, to play the saint and start preaching about "clean" (which they are not, US/EU have other forms of corruption) contracts.

t2contra said:

And how did my idea of being clean would get China involved in local politics?

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Because China would have to start explaining (to foreign diplomats) about why it didnt bid or didnt want a contract that nobody else wanted and it would have to say the same thing as the EU/US : you are corrupt, we cant do business with you. Then inside the country, different regions would proclaim they are clean, others would say they are not etc, and in the end, China starts getting mentioned for wrong reasons all the time in their local politics.

Politicians love to find something to redirect their anger or criticism. China should stay away from such things. The current approach is good. Step by step, digitization will reduce such blatant corruption

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China has repeatedly said that it doesn't interfere in internal matters. If they have corruption then whatever, the price paid to Chinese companies will be increased to include such "business" costs.

Why do you think the BRI is so attractive to the rest of the world. Your suggestion about doing business only in "clean" countries is basically to tear up the BRI and throw out half the world from it. China has said from the start, BRI is an inclusive project and China wont ask questions. What would it mean for China's diplomatic reputation to make a u-turn now.

Open a map and see the BRI countries, not many "clean" countries there...

bajingan said:

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This is huge, i think this is the first time China and russia sail together through tsugaru strait, correct me if im wrong
Is this direct response to the recent usn and canadian navy which sailed taiwan straits?
Message has been sent loud and clear to anglos and their vassals, they are facing a united Chinese and russian front

Click to expand...

PLAN have sailed through it previously but indeed this is the first time where China and Russia did it jointly, with 10 warships too.

It hurts a bit the first time around but rest assured eventually you'll get used to it and find it pleasurable.

t2contra said:

Just don't do it. The Chinese side. Even if it means losing the contract. Especially if the bribe is not just one or two millions.

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its not that easy. oh, you don't pay? you don't want this contract? no problem. how about every other project in the loop? we're going to look at the taxes very, very carefully.

we're going to do 13412344545134 environmental impact studies. if a single bug is impacted - oops, you are an ecological destroyer that kills entire ecosystems because this bug is actually a cornerstone species, that's $100 million in fines, but for reconsideration, we can lower it down to $10 million to me - merely 10x increase over the original ask.

you don't want those either? I have a certain adversary willing to pay $500k for me to go on CNN to say you're a debt trap imperialist. that's just 30 minutes of work for me. you're losing more and more by the second.

bajingan said:

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This is huge, i think this is the first time China and russia sail together through tsugaru strait, correct me if im wrong
Is this direct response to the recent usn and canadian navy which sailed taiwan straits?
Message has been sent loud and clear to anglos and their vassals, they are facing a united Chinese and russian front

Click to expand...

A direct response to what US and CN did is sailing through Diego Garcia sea with lot of PR saying CN do not recognize Diego Garcia as a US/UK territory

Looks like russia has had of enough of nato

Overbom said:

LThats not a game. In those "clean" countries they have the EU and US companies competing with their "sustainable" and "no-forced labour" bs labels. They would demolish Chinese companies because they can use their propaganda to paint Chinese companies in a bad light (which you have eaten up. Strange why you think that only China is facing these issues but whatever)

China is not competing on meaningless "clean" or "not-clean" lables. China is competing with lower prices, quick delivery, and (in recent years) quality.

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Who says it's a game? So what if they are competing with "sustainable", etc? Their cost is still higher. LOL. Otherwise, they would have eaten all of China's lunch in contract tenders. China is still faring very well and not all because of corruption, but because of(your second paragraph)

Saying that you want China to drop these contracts is the same as saying that China should voluntarily lower its wealth. This isnt happening. China doesn't have the wealth that the US and EU have, to play the saint and start preaching about "clean" (which they are not, US/EU have other forms of corruption) contracts.

Click to expand...

It will be compensated by winning in other markets. Over the longer term, China's cleanliness can be trusted to keep the customer nations' finances clean.

Because China would have to start explaining (to foreign diplomats) about why it didnt bid or didnt want a contract that nobody else wanted and it would have to say the same thing as the EU/US : you are corrupt, we cant do business with you. Then inside the country, different regions would proclaim they are clean, others would say they are not etc, and in the end, China starts getting mentioned for wrong reasons all the time in their local politics.

Click to expand...

LOL. Are you serious? Why would China need to explain to anyone it did not want to tender a bid? It's none of their business.

China has repeatedly said that it doesn't interfere in internal matters. If they have corruption then whatever, the price paid to Chinese companies will be increased to include such "business" costs.

Click to expand...

Grow up, please. Are you happy if BMW, for example, bribed the provincial governor to buy a piece of land for half price? Sigh!

Why do you think the BRI is so attractive to the rest of the world. Your suggestion about doing business only in "clean" countries is basically to tear up the BRI and throw out half the world from it. China has said from the start, BRI is an inclusive project and China wont ask questions. What would it mean for China's diplomatic reputation to make a u-turn now.

Click to expand...

Do you think it is attractive to the world because the local politicians could hope for a take? If the BRI countries' politicians start asking for bribes, the cost would increase, BRI becomes a dirty word.

Open a map and see the BRI countries, not many "clean" countries there...

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Legitimate reason for making dirty money?

FairAndUnbiased said:

its not that easy. oh, you don't pay? you don't want this contract? no problem. how about every other project in the loop? we're going to look at the taxes very, very carefully.

we're going to do 13412344545134 environmental impact studies. if a single bug is impacted - oops, you are an ecological destroyer that kills entire ecosystems because this bug is actually a cornerstone species, that's $100 million in fines, but for reconsideration, we can lower it down to $10 million to me - merely 10x increase over the original ask.

you don't want those either? I have a certain adversary willing to pay $500k for me to go on CNN to say you're a debt trap imperialist. that's just 30 minutes of work for me. you're losing more and more by the second.

Click to expand...

Yes, it's not easy. That means the Chinese SOEs have to do the math and factor in the risk. It will be new economics for them. They can tread the path of companies from Japan, Singapore, etc. At least, these companies are not as aggressive with their corruption. Then they will become familiar.