broadsword
Brigadier
Absolutely. The local laws are in place. Are the business ethics of the Chinese companies in place too? If they have, then we can say corruption is not tolerated by default, feel assured.
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Absolutely. The local laws are in place. Are the business ethics of the Chinese companies in place too? If they have, then we can say corruption is not tolerated by default, feel assured.
In many places around the world, it is really hard to draw distinction on what is allowable local practice. Should Chinese businessmen follow the letters of the laws of the countries in doing business only, then they might as well pack up their bags and go home. Usually, in order to get through cumbersome bureaucracy and get things done with unmotivated local officials, one usually develop better relations with them. Obviously, money is involved in other to get thing moving ahead as the local officials are more motivated and feel rewarded for extra efforts and risk undertaken. Some people are aghast, but that is the reality in most third world countries.
People asking about no corruption in third world countries must be dreaming. Has any of you tried to enter such a country?
Well let me tell you, that sometimes, even when trying to enter such a country by a land border, you need to bribe the border officials.
You need healthcare, bribe again, otherwise better get ready to risk your life when dealing with "unmotivated" doctors
If you want to construct something and you need a permit, bribe again, and if you refuse, better get ready for a 10 year delay.
If you want to import goods for business, well guess what, bribe again or they will be held up in the customs forever.
Wait, you have issues with thieves and gangs (very common), well, bribe the police for protection, because if you think that they will protect you because of their "duty" then good luck, your relatives will have a funeral for you.
What if a new politician comes who is corrupt and favours his own businesses over the competitors? Well guess what, bribe again, so you get "protection" from the politicans robbing you.
Then there is the whole thing about taxation matters, the officials will fervently try to find a small problem with your paperwork (very common), not because they want to do their "duty", but because they soon after they expect, guess what, a bribe, to solve bureaucratic problems
This is the reality of living or/and doing business there. People expecting no corruption in a third-world country is like asking for humans to close their noses/mouths and stop breathing. Impossible
Well let me tell you, that sometimes, even when trying to enter such a country by a land border, you need to bribe the border officials.
You need healthcare, bribe again, otherwise better get ready to risk your life when dealing with "unmotivated" doctors
If you want to construct something and you need a permit, bribe again, and if you refuse, better get ready for a 10 year delay.
If you want to import goods for business, well guess what, bribe again or they will be held up in the customs forever.
Wait, you have issues with thieves and gangs (very common), well, bribe the police for protection, because if you think that they will protect you because of their "duty" then good luck, your relatives will have a funeral for you.
What if a new politician comes who is corrupt and favours his own businesses over the competitors? Well guess what, bribe again, so you get "protection" from the politicans robbing you.
Then there is the whole thing about taxation matters, the officials will fervently try to find a small problem with your paperwork (very common), not because they want to do their "duty", but because they soon after they expect, guess what, a bribe, to solve bureaucratic problems
This is the reality of living or/and doing business there. People expecting no corruption in a third-world country is like asking for humans to close their noses/mouths and stop breathing. Impossible
broadsword
Brigadier
No one here is asking for no corruption. You were making a strawman. We are talking about big projects undertaken by Chinese firms that cost millions of dollars, part of which could be used for lining the pockets of officials. Millions of dollars. Or even hundreds of millions. That's abetting kleptocracy.
That is why I was talking about imposing ethics. Corruption of tens of millions is of a different order of magnitude from bribing the border officials. Small favors like small gifts or dinners could be exempted.
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broadsword
Brigadier
I mean where can you find a country that legally allows a contractor to win a tender by paying the country's leader a commission. As for paying money to get things done, avoid as much as possible. But the main thing as I wrote is to have a code of conduct first and foremost.
Lmao. Do you think the corrupt officials are stupid or what? If they see a multi billion project do you think they will just ask for "small gifts or dinners" or some thousand dollars bribe? Lol
Depending on their seniority, these corrupt officials will easily ask for millions for a bribe. They are not stupid.
They see you have a billion investment at stake, they wont hesitate to open their mouths and directly ask for a multi million bribe. And thats only 1 corrupt official at 1 gov department.
As I said, you need to go yourself to these countries to understand how things work there. That you think that these corrupt officials wont squeeze your business dry for a huge bribe is fantasy
broadsword
Brigadier
Just don't do it. The Chinese side. Even if it means losing the contract. Especially if the bribe is not just one or two millions.
Thats not how business works. The money from such big investments will ultimately flow back to China and fill in the Gov treasury.
Then this money will be used by the Chinese Gov to invest domestically and thus increasing the income level, providing jobs, reducing taxation (example), etc
What you are asking, is for China to shoot itself on the foot for morals. This isnt going to happen. The Chinese Gov, top to bottom, is pragmatic.
However this isnt a black or white issue. Its not like the Chinese companies like to bribe so many people before doing anything. But how can China change this on these countries?
What you are asking is a soft form of imperialism, for China to get involved to local politics which would generate a backlash against it by the people there. Or for China to withdraw entirely from Africa which would devastate hundreds of thousands (millions ?) of jobs there
If I may say something which may sound ironic, is that more Chinese investment (+ the required associated corruption), will ultimately lead to better life for the people there. In fact, that China is helping Africa digitise is the biggest gift that the African people could ask for. The more digitised the gov services, the less the corruption.
Africa is now experiencing such a tremendous change in digitization, and China is the number 1 country which is helping it build these systems and services