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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I saw the longer version of that when it was posted on YouTube a few weeks back. Nicolas Burns doing the one-eighty from when he was US ambassador to China for Biden. Everything he said was a critique of China back then. Now he has to paint Trump's foreign policy as bad for the US when he was doing that when he was Biden's man in Beijing.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
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Scott Bessent seems to have reached stage 4
US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent dangled the possibility of extending a pause of import duties on Chinese goods for longer than three months if China halts its plan for strict new export controls on rare-earth elements.
Unfortunately for Bessent, that's not how game theory works

Once you fire the arrow, you lose it forever in due time. If your target wants you to intercept your own arrow away from hitting him, it will take far far more than just a pause of import duties

US has really kicked the iron plate this time.
 

Eventine

Senior Member
Registered Member
no, Khan is the title of ruler in Mongolic and Turkic languages which are not related to Mandarian language (a branch of Sino-Tibetan).

Han is a name of river in Southwest China. It is a tributary water of Yantze River in Southern China. The founder of Han dynasty Liu Bang received his fiefdom in the Han river vally in Southwest China (today's Sichuan province). After he defeated everyone he named his dynasty Han, a tradition of naming by ariscratical title. The population would not be named Han as there is no reason to call your own name. People would self introduce as Zhongyuan Ren (people from central plain), or Lingnan Ren (people from morden day Guangdong) and so on. Only in Yuan dynasty, the mongol emperor need a catagorization for official assignment based on the time of joining Chengis Khan's struggle, they made four catagories under their rule, and Han was used officially for the first time to refer to a population.

In short, Han is name of a river to name of a dynasty to name of people.

Interestingly in most European languages, the word like Chin, Sinea, China, Kina are the name of first dynasy before Han. But inside China the dynasty lasted for very short time, so the name did not stick around as Han would.
That is incorrect. The name Han was from 天汉, the Mikey Way Galaxy.
I don't know why people are arguing about this. Han is just a name. You could also call it Hua or Huaxia or whatever you want, really.

The true meaningful category is Sinitic speakers (speakers of historical Chinese languages), analogous to terms like "Germanic" or "Slavic" or "Japonic". But Sinitic only covers the linguistic link. It is necessary but insufficient to determine closeness.

If you look at the way the world is organized, almost always, people are organized according to both language and race.

An English speaking East Asian in the US won't be accepted as "fully American." Even though liberals claim the US is a melting pot, in truth, race matters, these days more & more. The US's turn towards fascism and racial nationalism won't end well for people who merely speak English, but don't "look" American (= white European).

And while some Chinese (the liberals especially) would like to pretend that China is defined culturally and so anyone can be Chinese if they speak Chinese and practice Chinese culture, the reality is that it's not true. If you see a black guy in China, even if he acts exactly like a Chinese, chances are he's going to get stares and whispers wherever he goes, and will be treated as a "foreigner" at first glance - because the definition of Chinese for the vast majority of the population is "East Asian" + "Sinitic speaking." Just being the latter isn't enough.

Just the same, even though you can barely distinguish Koreans and Chinese physically, the fact that Koreans speak a completely different language (Koreanic) means they aren't truly members of the Sinitic world. They're not as close as, say, Malaysian Chinese or Singaporean Chinese or even Taiwanese. This is shown in the diaspora where Taiwanese and mainland Chinese, supposed mortal enemies, often congregate together in communities, but Koreans keep to their own.

If we want to be truly objective about how identity is defined, then we should stop basing it around how liberals want to see the world, and instead look at how the world actually is.
 
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Ringsword

Senior Member
Registered Member
That name sounds so familiar to me. Anyone read "My Senior Brother is too steady"? The hero is a mastermind and works as an advisor and agent to the emperor and has that name there.
That would be funny if he also read the same thing or his mom/dad and either he renamed himself or his parents did-BTWi heard he was a veritable "pitbull" at negotiations ,a very tough opponent-hence he was chosen by Xi .Bessent of course is bitching,raging,complaining about Li as Bessent can't bully,nor intimidate him.
 

burritocannon

Junior Member
Registered Member
This guy talked tough when he was at his post in China. Now that he's stepped down, he really loosened the belt on his inner thoughts, and showed us he's quite sensible and not just some idiot Captain America type. I wonder what Bessent will say when he's done. Reveals that these Americans will absolutely do a job on an empty shell mindset with as much belief and conviction as a man told he's supposed chop down a tree by staring at it really hard.
haha nah did you actually watch the video this was clipped from? i went and listened to the
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. nothing has changed. he might concede these things that anyone can observe because he has no choice, but the objective has not changed and will never change, which is to seek the destruction of chinese autonomy in order to maintain western hegemony. he still repeatedly returns to all the tired bylines of the american cold war framework. like bless his heart i think he's actually a genuine believer in the whole freedom good schtick and thinks the chinese would be happier under the american system but at this point its just blind faith. american leadership is so boxed in by the cold war narratives that they can't comprehend how a more objective-oriented framework is running circles around them. they don't seem to grasp that this outdated framework is actually preventing them from achieving their national interest objectives.

as an aside, wasnt this the guy that the chinese snubbed? he just seems like a harmless old coot, poor guy.
oh yeah and while he's really well spoken, he's never able to offer any solutions. i went on to check out some more interviews with him. he only ever makes observations and attaches some moral judgements to them and continues to do that in a circular manner. i dont think he's aware that a dreamer like him will never earn the esteem of doers.

anyways, returning back to where this all started, it's still alarming to me how desperate chinese are for american approval. the moment any american says the slightest positive thing about china you just gotta go over the moon? smh
 
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escobar

Brigadier
US port fees penalise Chinese-built ships, which put negative pressure earlier this year on asset values and charter rates of Chinese tonnage, and made Japanese- and Korean-built ships more attractive. “Five or six months ago, everyone was saying: ‘We don’t have any Chinese ships. We’re great.’ Now you want Chinese ships,” said Giveans.
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valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
I am trying to say that there is no clear cut historical boundry when Han is made/fixed (culturally or genetically) then remained relative stable and distinct, but it is a continous and increasingly larger snowballing process.
I agree with the point, but if you take assimilation as a function of two (for simplicity) cultures that produces another culture as a result, the assimilation of groups into the Han identity took two (somewhat, usually at least a little adjacent due to prior exchanges) cultures and put out a culture that was much closer to the pre-existing Han culture than the other.

In this sense, this process of assimilation (which certainly happened in many times in history) still is not "molding," which was the point of my post: what is now the Han cultural identity has existed for some thousands of years, and while now many genetically distinct groups fall underneath the cultural identity (either as part of the original Zhou-period umbrella, or later assimilations), this conglomeration was not "molded." "Molding" suggests some mastermind taking large and distinct groups and forcing them in some manner to adopt a shared culture and identity; this is not what happened.

I also would not really say that these genetically distinct groups are distinct ethnic groups in the same way that regional dialects are not distinct languages. What I wrote regarding mutual intelligibility, legibility, and shared cultural values holds true (although with different numbers for how long it's been the case) for all the various genetically distinct groups in China. Perhaps my notion of ethnic group differs from the conventional notion. I personally feel that any efforts (generally from the West) to point out these small cultural differences or genetic differences as issues of division in Chinese culture and society are efforts to generate tension where there is none.
 

Sardaukar20

Major
Registered Member
Relatively new infrastructure in the Supapowar are still crumbling.

This is the perk for being the world's largest democracy. You can complain. You can boast. You can belittle China. But when bad things happen, you never blame the system. Because democracy, along with freedom of speech is the ultimate form of existence.
 
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