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zyklon

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'Army of Europe' needed to challenge Russia says Zelensky​

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has called for the creation of an "army of Europe" to guard against Russia as he suggested the US may no longer come to the continent's aid.
Speaking at the Munich Security Conference, he also said that Ukraine would "never accept deals made behind our backs without our involvement" after US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed to start peace talks.
In a speech on Friday,
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, US Vice President JD Vance warned that Europe needed to "step up in a big way" on defence.
Zelensky said: "I really believe the time has come - the armed forces of Europe must be created."
He said: "Yesterday here in Munich, the US vice president made it clear [that] decades of the old relationship between Europe and America are ending.
"From now on things will be different and Europe needs to adjust to that."
Earlier this week, US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth said that Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine was a "factory reset" for Nato which signalled the alliance needed to be "robust", "strong" and "real".
On Saturday, Zelensky said: "Let's be honest. Now we can't rule out the possibility that America might say no to Europe on an issue that threatens it.
"Many, many leaders have talked about Europe that needs its own military.
"An army, an army of Europe."
The concept of a European army is
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, including France's President Emmanuel Macron who has long backed the bloc's own military to reduce its reliance on the US.
Zelensky said: "A few days ago, President Trump told me about his conversation with Putin. Not once did he mention that America needs Europe at the table - that says a lot.
"The old days are over when America supported Europe just because it always had."
As Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine nears its three-year anniversary, Trump and Hegseth have both said it is unlikely that Ukraine will join Nato.
The US defence secretary also said a return to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders was unrealistic.
Zelensky said he would "not take Nato membership for Ukraine off the table".


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where they discussed peace talks regarding Ukraine, apparently sidelining key allies.

Zelensky said that, as well as Ukraine, Europe "should have a seat at the table when decisions about Europe are being made".

The US president later said that he and Putin planned to meet in Saudi Arabia, and wrote on social media that the two had invited each other to their respective capitals.

But Zelensky accused Putin of playing a "game", by isolating America in "one-on-one" talks.

"Next, Putin will try to get the US president standing on Red Square 9 May this year, not as a respected leader but as a prop in his own performance," Zelensky said.

No date has been set for Trump's visit to Moscow.

Russia celebrates "Victory Day" on 9 May, when it marks its triumph over Nazi Germany in 1945.

On Ukraine's involvement in talks, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said last week that Kyiv "will of course one way or another be taking part in the negotiations".

Germany's chancellor, Olaf Scholz, said his country would never support a dictated peace.

Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Europe needs its own plan on Ukraine, or "other global players will decide about our future".

If Zelensky was wise, which can be tough when you're an actor rather than a statesman, he would have proposed the creation of a new Grandee Army composed of migrant conscripts, but led by Ukrainian officers and NCOs to continue armed resistance against Russia.

Not only will this immediately resonate with the anti-migrant stance of Trump, Vance, and the alt-right on both sides of the Atlantic at large, but it will also give EU states pretext to deport migrants who refuse to earn their keep with blood. :)

Some Europeans and Americans are going to have doubts about training and arming conscripts who are mostly Muslim.

However, it's not like Ukraine is inexperienced in the employment of blocking units . . . I mean
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. :cool:
 

Randomuser

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Successful management consultants tend to be great at expanding the scope of their engagements to maximize billable hours.

When such folks get into government this often translates to creating, aggravating and/or exaggerating crises for the sake of generating political opportunities (e.g. pretext for justifying new subsidies to businesses owned by friendly donors).
Management consulting used to be big in China but gradually lost steam. Loads of people realized these consultants didn't know shit and they were being ripped off.
 

zyklon

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Management consulting used to be big in China but gradually lost steam. Loads of people realized these consultants didn't know shit and they were being ripped off.

Not too familiar with the management consulting industry inside China, but that's a pretty believable statement: management consultants tend to be well credentialed, but credentialism hasn't been doing too well as of late in general.

Some US elites -- including members of Congress -- have recently been openly attacking McKinsey for work they reportedly performed for the Chinese government, in part due to fears of (perceived) conflicts of interest given their history of US federal government engagements.

Any idea if McKinsey actually deserves the credit they've been given, or is Congress getting worked up over nothing?
 

Overbom

Brigadier
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Comrade Elon should slow down. He draws too much attention. MSS should advice him to lay low for a bit
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Elon Musk’s DOGE Shares Classified U.S. Intel With Entire World
Musk’s team posted information about the staff and size of a U.S. intelligence agency on their new website
The
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at DOGE appear to have forgotten that part and included information about the National Reconnaissance Office, which is tasked with creating and maintaining satellites for U.S. intelligence. Much of the agency’s activities, including its budget and head count, are classified and aren’t supposed to be available to the public
One Defense Intelligence Agency employee told
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anonymously that “DOGE just posted secret [Not Releasable to Foreign Nationals] info on their website about [intelligence community] headcount, so currently people are scrambling to check if their info has been accessed.”
While the NRO is the only intelligence agency that DOGE appears to have exposed, this incident doesn’t speak well of the pseudo-agency’s security procedures. The website has already been
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by Thursday evening thanks to coding vulnerabilities. And since DOGE has gotten into all kinds of
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, every American could be at risk.
 

Randomuser

Senior Member
Registered Member
Not too familiar with the management consulting industry inside China, but that's a pretty believable statement: management consultants tend to be well credentialed, but credentialism hasn't been doing too well as of late in general.

Some US elites -- including members of Congress -- have recently been openly attacking McKinsey for work they reportedly performed for the Chinese government, in part due to fears of (perceived) conflicts of interest given their history of US federal government engagements.

Any idea if McKinsey actually deserves the credit they've been given, or is Congress getting worked up over nothing?
Chinese are skeptical about paying for advice. If they do have to pay for it then it better be damn good advice.

The problem is many MBB guys are just people who graduated summa cum laude from undergraduate, went to a decent job then went to Harvard Business School for their MBA and then joined MBB.

Credential wise this looks really good. The problem is there are levels to this stuff. Like we are talking almost PHD level abstract levels in math/physics when it comes to the problems China deals with. Simply put you need specialized high level knowledge or expertise experience gained in the field. A lot of idiots think Xi handles everything when in reality there are tons of CPC subject matter experts to give advice in every area possible. Management consultants are really only scratching the surface compared to the level of depth needed.

I guess in the past McKinsey helped a lot in China because it was backwards and McKinsey simply could reuse their work from last time. But whatever the amount they helped, things have changed now. There is no more copypasting the analysis when China is at the forefront now.

Btw interesting trivia. If I remember correctly, most of the original founders of the big management consulting firms were all engineers and had strong backgrounds in it. Yet if you look at many management consultants these days, they never went anywhere close to engineering. People like Pete Buttigieg and Mitt Romney majored in English. So no wonder they seem to create more problems than they solve.
 
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Randomuser

Senior Member
Registered Member
I wasted more time browsing X comments. But I do get why westoids should glad that the Chinese firewall stops most posters from there. It ain't easy dealing with their words.

Some murican was mocking China saying oh we are so scared on China delivering fake goods to us or something. The Chinese poster just said one drone = one life. Man that murican got triggered hard by that comment. After all despite being so convinced about his superiority, he realized that some cheap $20 drone bought on temu to deliver his pizza could also end his life so easily in seconds.

Another murican said those chinkies should bring it since every American is armed and willing to die. To which the Chinese poster said you are willing to die for your country so why are you not willing to learn math and physics for it? Sick burn :D
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
If Zelensky was wise, which can be tough when you're an actor rather than a statesman, he would have proposed the creation of a new Grandee Army composed of migrant conscripts, but led by Ukrainian officers and NCOs to continue armed resistance against Russia.

Not only will this immediately resonate with the anti-migrant stance of Trump, Vance, and the alt-right on both sides of the Atlantic at large, but it will also give EU states pretext to deport migrants who refuse to earn their keep with blood. :)

Some Europeans and Americans are going to have doubts about training and arming conscripts who are mostly Muslim.

However, it's not like Ukraine is inexperienced in the employment of blocking units . . . I mean
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. :cool:
Europe will blow up if they make such an attempt. Europe lacks Arabic Soft Power and Hard power (money) to create an effective Army of Migrants. Migrants will first to turn on host countries if they find out such thing is created and the combat performance will be subpar in high tech battlefield.
Not even Turkey can create Islamic army of 21st century. This Muslim faith in 21st century is only for extremely wealthy societies.
Only Russia has the Wealth , Tech and Arabic Soft Power behind to create such an Army to command others. so when you look at Russia tourism statistics its hardly impacted. do you think Robots are fighting on there behalf?.
Kazan is the culture capital of Islamic world and Grozny is the Culture capital of Russia. and that Miss Tatarstan backstage once you understand is like distributing handouts.
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Grozny has been named the Cultural Capital of Russia for 2025
 
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