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Serb

Junior Member
Registered Member
quim said:
Russia and the US have seen that they cannot win unilaterally and will have to make a deal in which both will concede part of their plans.
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Wrong, Russia is literally winning unilaterally the entire time. Why would they stop?

For example, their president didn't get replaced by a new one who immediately promised to bring the war to an end like in the US.

They have an infinitely better position now as the US enters into a full collapse objectively and wants to dip away by any means necessary.

quim said:
Russia will get Donbas and Crimea, and the US will gain control of the exploration of rare earths and western positions in Ukraine.
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Mega-wrong, Russia already officially annexed Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk, and Zaporizhzhia, there is no going back from that.

There is a 1% chance Putin can go back on that, and will go back on that now that they are winning.

And that was nearly 2.5 years ago, and imagine how much the US additionally deteriorated since then.

To be honest, with these negotiations, there is no way Russia agrees without even more UKR territory added on top of those 4.

quim said:
But those who can be called "winners" of the war will be Poland, Italy and Spain, who will take advantage of the weakness of Germany and France to increase their influence and desires in the EU.
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This has no basis, literally everyone in the EU lost. Not even Poland and the Baltics won since the war made Russia only stronger.

quim said:
For Ukraine, the result will be mixed. The old artificial Ukraine, with its Orthodox majority population and Soviet borders, has been destroyed, it is gone forever!

But a new Ukraine should emerge better than the one that ended in the long run. The dominant part of the male population will be Polish/Ruthenian from the west of the country, will continue to have access to the Black Sea and will have the presence of Poles and Americans exploiting rare earths and agriculture. It will be an extension of Poland politically, economically and ultimately militarily. The Orthodox men who did not die in the war or migrated abroad will be much weaker and this will make the new Ukraine more cohesive socially and politically.
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Again very low chance that Ukraine will actually be able to get any access to the Black Sea.

quim said:
For Russia, the agreement will be good for the economy, but it will not be a complete victory because the existence of a new cohesive Ukraine linked to Poland and the US will be an unneutralized threat.
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For Russia, this was a historical victory, not only for the economy but singlehandedly changing the entire world order toward the West versus the Rest.

quim said:
For China, the result is also mixed. A Russian agreement with the US means that Russia is also open to negotiations with the US and will put its interests first. So on the one hand it will be good for China's economy, but on the other hand it will also have to deal with the reality of Russia being open to negotiations with the US. Therefore the Chinese will also have to negotiate with the Russians for better agreements and security.
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Wait, for it to be finalized first, and then speak. There is no way that the arrogant US will agree to Putin's reasonable demands after all.

But just this humiliating begging for agreement already made the US look quite weak to the RoW, so this is in itself a victory for China.

quim said:
For the US, the outcome of the war in Ukraine will be equally mixed. On the one hand, they prevented a complete Russian victory and reasserted their control over Europe, but on the other hand, they saw that they had reached their limit and were also unable to defeat Russia. It was a stalemate in the grand scheme of things.
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No, the US always had complete control over Europe. By wrecking the EU economy, and now abandoning it, they just created long-term resentment.
 
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FriedButter

FriedButter

Colonel
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Ukraine says it will not accept US-Russia peace deal reached without Kyiv​

President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Thursday Ukraine would not accept any bilateral agreement on its fate reached by Moscow and Washington without Kyiv's involvement, and called for Europe to have a seat at the table in negotiations to end the war.

The Ukrainian leader made the comments at a nuclear plant on his way to the Munich Security Conference, a day after U.S. President Donald Trump spoke to Russian leader Vladimir Putin Zelenskiy and announced the start of negotiations.

"We, as an independent country, simply will not be able to accept any agreements without us," Zelenskiy told reporters.

The Putin call and remarks by Trump's defence secretary, who said Kyiv cannot join NATO or that a return to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is unrealistic, have caused alarm in Europe that the White House could seek to make a deal with Russia without them.

"Today it's important that everything does not go according to Putin's plan, in which he wants to do everything to make his negotiations bilateral (with the U.S.)," Zelenskiy said.

He said it was important for the United States and Ukraine to draw up a plan to end the war before talking to the Russian side.

He has been pushing to meet Trump before Trump meets Putin, although the U.S. president said on Wednesday that he was expecting to meet Putin in the future, probably in Saudi Arabia.

Ukraine has said it is working on a Zelenskiy-Trump meeting, but nothing firm has been announced so far.

Zelenskiy said he did not discuss the matter of NATO membership during his phone call with Trump, though he said he knew that the United States was against the idea.

He also tried to play down the significance of
Trump calling Putin before him on Wednesday, saying it did not look like a marker of Washington's real priorities but adding that it was nonetheless "unpleasant".

As the third anniversary of Russia's invasion nears, Moscow controls a fifth of Ukraine and has been slowly advancing in the east for months, while Kyiv's smaller army grapples with manpower shortages and tries to hold a chunk of territory in western Russia.
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"We, as an independent country, simply will not be able to accept any agreements without us," Zelenskiy told reporters.
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Well you can go the same way South Vietnam did. Because Ukraine pushing their own terms on the table means nothing happens.
 
I

ismellcopium

Junior Member
Registered Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
What else can I say but Bruh. Is the US speedrunning something?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1890079680973451598

View attachment 145596
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How in the actual fuck does that even happen? Bumper boats with Burkes, whatever. But this I can barely even fathom.
manqiangrexue said:
They'll own your coalmine and put you in it. Don't make retarded jokes like that at me again.
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What about @9dashline's offer?
FriedButter said:
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Well you can go the same way South Vietnam did. Because Ukraine pushing their own terms on the table means nothing happens.
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They should declare war on the US.
 
Sinnavuuty

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
siegecrossbow said:
Does Gulf of America count as a foreign or domestic destination?
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Foreign!!!
According to John Sledge, the museum's maritime historian in residence, when the Spanish first reached the Gulf in 1513, they thought they had found a route to Asia and initially called it the Chinese Sea (a name unlikely to appeal to Trump, Sledge noted). Other early explorers called it the Gulf of Cortés or the Gulf of New Spain.
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J

jiajia99

Junior Member
Registered Member
RedBaron said:
Trump isn't innocent either. It was under his term that US started arming Ukraine. Ukraine was really a joint effort between last three administrations.
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And it failed and ended up making Russia stronger and also made Russia turn towards Asia away from America and the EU in almost every sense of the word making this the greatest geopolitical failure to date for Washington. I don’t think this gesture from Trump is going to make up for all the pain and humiliation that Russia had to go through due to these actions by Washington and I don’t think Putin is stupid enough to trust Trump given that well, Trump did allow for the process of Ukraine to be armed when he could’ve stopped it and well during his first term, he did sanction Russia, so he is basically an untrustworthy piece of shit


quim said:
The real big losers of the war in Ukraine are the UK, France and Germany.

They lost economically and militarily and thus lost their morale in the European Union. The world order in which these former powers still had relevance is over and now they will have to reinvent themselves or disappear.

Russia and the US have seen that they cannot win unilaterally and will have to make a deal in which both will concede part of their plans. Russia will get Donbas and Crimea, and the US will gain control of the exploration of rare earths and western positions in Ukraine.

But those who can be called "winners" of the war will be Poland, Italy and Spain, who will take advantage of the weakness of Germany and France to increase their influence and desires in the EU.

For Ukraine, the result will be mixed. The old artificial Ukraine, with its Orthodox majority population and Soviet borders, has been destroyed, it is gone forever!

But a new Ukraine should emerge better than the one that ended in the long run. The dominant part of the male population will be Polish/Ruthenian from the west of the country, will continue to have access to the Black Sea and will have the presence of Poles and Americans exploiting rare earths and agriculture. It will be an extension of Poland politically, economically and ultimately militarily. The Orthodox men who did not die in the war or migrated abroad will be much weaker and this will make the new Ukraine more cohesive socially and politically.

For Russia, the agreement will be good for the economy, but it will not be a complete victory because the existence of a new cohesive Ukraine linked to Poland and the US will be an unneutralized threat.

For China, the result is also mixed. A Russian agreement with the US means that Russia is also open to negotiations with the US and will put its interests first. So on the one hand it will be good for China's economy, but on the other hand it will also have to deal with the reality of Russia being open to negotiations with the US. Therefore the Chinese will also have to negotiate with the Russians for better agreements and security.

For the US, the outcome of the war in Ukraine will be equally mixed. On the one hand, they prevented a complete Russian victory and reasserted their control over Europe, but on the other hand, they saw that they had reached their limit and were also unable to defeat Russia. It was a stalemate in the grand scheme of things.

All this just shows that we are in a multipolar world again.

The fierce expansion of US hegemonic power after the collapse of the USSR is over, but they continue to be a superpower.

The US, China and Russia have seen their strengths and their limits and will have to coexist from now on. The balance of interests between the powers will once again be the focus of the world.
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It’s true that Trump made the call and Putin has shown some interest but what makes anyone think that Russia is just going to accept a deal that quick. These talks could take ages and Russia is still going to be fighting for quite a while and Trump would have to be the one to make all the concessions, not Putin. Russia is winning and just one call from Trump isn’t going to change that, the deal would have to be properly ironed out And it will not be to the benefit of the USA. Still the EU are the ultimate losers, I give you that
 
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