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Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Israel's war is against Palestine and against groups that support Palestine, such as Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran.

So far it is a victory for Israel, which took most of Palestine and even expanded into Syria now. All with the complicity of the US and Russia.

Evolution of the territory:

images


Let's not deny reality.
But this is the "holy land" promised to Israel in its 100% and their de jure borders. Owning the whole thing should be the default assumption. Failing to maintain control in any territory means absolute defeat, not fully annexing the Palestine that has blocked them for ~70 years only means a stalemate.

In 1947, the size of Israel was 20 500 km2. Today, it is ~22 500 km2. In the latest year with the war, the expansion has been nearly unmeasuable and the majority of gains come from the Yom Kippur war.

In contrast, Russia sits on ~115 000 km2 of Ukrainian land since 2022 and added 2000~ km2 over the last month.

One of these conflict look like a stalemate and the other look like an active conqueror using his arms to beat territory from his neighbor.
 
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ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member

What's worse about this whole thing (viewed from the civilian side) is that reports have already been made to the German police on two separate occasions prior to the attack, warning them about his extremist views and intentions on Twitter.


In fact, Saudi Arabian authorities even warned Germany about this guy and asked them to repatriate him back to stand trial. But German authorities refused to hand him over on the "muh asylum to flee political prosecution" grounds.

GfTCoBpXwAA1WkS.jpeg

What a boomerang. But hey, all the "muh freedom, muh liberty" Westoid countries will never learn.
 
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FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
Don't we already have a Seperate thread for the Ukraine war?

Discussions/arguments tend to stay in the thread of origin unless moved. However, it isn’t like that separate thread is viable either. It is far more restrictive and if the Middle East or Syria thread had the same restrictions as that one then most of those pages probably would be have wiped.
 

iewgnem

Junior Member
Registered Member
Israel's war is against Palestine and against groups that support Palestine, such as Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran.

So far it is a victory for Israel, which took most of Palestine and even expanded into Syria now. All with the complicity of the US and Russia.

Evolution of the territory:

images


Let's not deny reality.
Do you realize how small Israel is? The entirety of Israel is smaller than Crimea, and the Gaza strip which Israel can't even hold against civilians resistance is only 6km wide, literally less than a single day of Russian advance in Ukraine....
 

TPenglake

Junior Member
Registered Member
One of these conflict look like a stalemate and the other look like an active conqueror using his arms to beat territory from his neighbor.
Well, its clear to which countries you're ascribing the above scenarios to, but is that really the case in reality?

Take Israel. In Lebanon, prior to the ceasefire Israeli troops had already reached the Litani river. But territory was never their objective, decimating Hezbollah was. And can one really argue they didn't complete their objective, when after the war Hezbollah was so badly mauled they weren't able to help Assad in any capacity and are now cut off from Iran? Hezbollah started the war supposedly as the world's most powerful militia, they now arguably have a combat capability just slightly above most Mexican drug cartels with that slight edge being owed to whatever's left of their missile arsenal that Israel hasn't destroyed.

On top of that, Israel is in the process of bisecting Gaza and has completely occupied the Golan heights, an objective they've pursued for decades, which the new Syrian government is unlikely going to get back unless Turkey decided to strong arm Israel into returning it, which they're unlikely to do. Frankly as much as we all hate to see it, if Israel really wanted to complete the settlement of the West Bank, who's stopping them at this point?

On the other hand, the Russo-Ukrainian war is still ongoing after 2 years, soon to be its 3rd year. Sure, Russia is winning right now, but victory is being achieved with a slow grind through the southeastern part of Europe's poorest nation, plus they still haven't managed to recapture the sliver of territory that Ukraine captured from them, going as far as to request North Korean assistance in order to do so.

With the Israelis, the geopolitical consensus is even if they wanted to do the most diabolitical shit to the Palestinians, nobody is standing in their way at this point. Whereas with Russia, questions still remain about how much more resources they need to devote to achieve total victory over the Ukrainians, what their definition of "total victory" is, and if they're satisfied with just conquering Donbas or if they still want all of Ukraine up until the Dnipro.

I think its clear in this scenario which side has largely completed their objectives and which side is technically in a stalemate despite gaining ground.
 

FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
Do you realize how small Israel is? The entirety of Israel is smaller than Crimea, and the Gaza strip which Israel can't even hold against civilians resistance is only 6km wide, literally less than a single day of Russian advance in Ukraine....

For comparison purposes, the Gaza Strip is about the same size as the city of Detroit.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Well, its clear to which countries you're ascribing the above scenarios to, but is that really the case in reality?

Take Israel. In Lebanon, prior to the ceasefire Israeli troops had already reached the Litani river.
Prior to the negotiations which UK torpedoed, Russia had also reached Kiev.
But territory was never their objective, decimating Hezbollah was.
To say this retreat is a clear victory would be premature, even if they did to some extent damage their respective enemies on the approach.
And can one really argue they didn't complete their objective, when after the war Hezbollah was so badly mauled they weren't able to help Assad in any capacity and are now cut off from Iran?
Assad signed himself out and gave his stuff over to the other leader, short of invading and occupying Syria themselves, it wouldn't be possible to overturn the settlement between old Syrian regime and the salafist government.
Hezbollah started the war supposedly as the world's most powerful militia, they now arguably have a combat capability just slightly above most Mexican drug cartels with that slight edge being owed to whatever's left of their missile arsenal that Israel hasn't destroyed.

On top of that, Israel is in the process of bisecting Gaza and has completely occupied the Golan heights, an objective they've pursued for decades, which the new Syrian government is unlikely going to get back unless Turkey decided to strong arm Israel into returning it, which they're unlikely to do. Frankly as much as we all hate to see it, if Israel really wanted to complete the settlement of the West Bank, who's stopping them at this point?
We'll see if they can, but first they need to take Gaza.
On the other hand, the Russo-Ukrainian war is still ongoing after 2 years, soon to be its 3rd year. Sure, Russia is winning right now, but victory is being achieved with a slow grind through the southeastern part of Europe's poorest nation, plus they still haven't managed to recapture the sliver of territory that Ukraine captured from them, going as far as to request North Korean assistance in order to do so.
Russia's objective isn't territory either, it's killing all the pro western people in Ukraine and reducing the rest into misery where they're forced to beg Russia or EU for basic sustenance. The idea is that EU won't afford much more refugees and Ukrainians will more preferentially choose a Russian speaking community.
With the Israelis, the geopolitical consensus is even if they wanted to do the most diabolitical shit to the Palestinians, nobody is standing in their way at this point. Whereas with Russia, questions still remain about how much more resources they need to devote to achieve total victory over the Ukrainians, what their definition of "total victory" is, and if they're satisfied with just conquering Donbas or if they still want all of Ukraine up until the Dnipro.

I think its clear in this scenario which side has largely completed their objectives and which side is technically in a stalemate despite gaining ground.
Russia has much greater objectives which should in theory take more time to achieve, but they're at least making progress. It's quite unclear if Israel is gaining or losing.

If their goal is to take capture Gaza city only, they're maybe 75% there. But this is a very very small goal. For the goal to defeat the anti Israel forces and annex Palestine, the goal is very far out of reach.
 
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