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Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
Index said:
Lol Americans trying to declare themselves winners when they haven't provided anything.

And who is to say the widely publicly distributed versions in China aren't superior to some hidden, only used in staged scenario, US equivalent? US can say anything, since it's only used in carefully curated promos. Even if these US platforms can equal China's ground tested technology, would it be able to match up to what Beijing keeps around itself restricted from the public? China has the largest supercomputer capacity of any country.

Boston dynamics claimed for years without delivering a product that they were superior to different Chinese robotmakers. As of today they have shown nothing that's not tech demos doing the same as what China has done, and it is Chinese robodogs that are going to the front for Russia, and soon for Ukraine too, if/when AFU finds their shell export company. Boston dynamics nowhere to be seen on the European continent even.

US not daring to show their products outside carefully curated and scripted environments makes it hard for the public to fully gauge how inferior they are to China's, until proven otherwise.

Progress waits for no one and I hope China continues to press the pedal to the metal. Good ideas will stick while bad ideas will fall into obsolence. And also the PLA to keep experimenting with the latest tech to seize all security advantages, such as autonomous unmanned swarms with AI led targeting. Furthermore China should really look into additional ways to hamper and slow down US, not just ways to grow and implement new tech at home, but also prevent the enemy from advancing.
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I have often said that the rise of China is the death of white supremacy and given that the only thing that unites the west under Anglo leadership is white privilege and white supremacy, the rise of China necessarily means the unmasking of the myth of white genius and supposed supremacy vis a vis China.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1830270918184051091

I can speak for myself in Australia that inflation has really screwed up the quality of life here and now the government is blaming immigration and cutting down on student visas But given that Chinese students long stopped going to Australia for study during the Covid years, this would only mainly affect Indians who want to move to Australia to escape the faeces back home.

As tphuang put it, iron ore is the only thing underwriting the Australian economy. Without it, Oz will go the way of Argentina and the Philippines.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1830258104883360105

rather ominous given Biden has spend the last 16 days on a beach holiday.
 
C

chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
supercat said:
Are we living in the same world?
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Yep. The research papers are leading indicators, on the future, but for now, US productivity is substantially higher than China. No one seems to be disputing this, but instead, qualifying it on what will happen in the future.
supercat said:
Who cares? China was the driver of the world's economic growth in the past decade and will remain so in the foreseeable future.
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And the original point was about the present productivity differences. Appeals to the first derivative are irrelevant.
 
I

iewgnem

New Member
Registered Member
chgough34 said:
Yep. The research papers are leading indicators, on the future, but for now, US productivity is substantially higher than China. No one seems to be disputing this, but instead, qualifying it on what will happen in the future.

And the original point was about the present productivity differences. Appeals to the first derivative are irrelevant.
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A healthcare industry that charges $1000 for an ambulance ride is not more productive than a healthcare industry that charges $0 for a ride.

Productivity is output over input, the fallacy with western economics is equating revenue with output, for every $1 of revenue there need to be $1 of expense, real output is how much you get for that $1.

Case in point, the fact that US defence industry generates 4x more revenue than Chinese industry while producing a fraction of Chinese output does not make them 4x more productive, it makes them 4x less productive. The fact that GM generates 2x more revenue per car sold does not make them 2x more productive than BYD, it makes them half. This extend to every other industry.

American productivity is FAR lower than China, if not they would not be paying more on debt servicing than military budget.
 
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valysre

Junior Member
Registered Member
chgough34 said:
Real wages have gone up.
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This must mean that the many people discussing the increasing difficulty to meet basic living needs is all a collective hallucination.
I see now! The American people are hallucinating the poor state of the US economy because Communist agents have slipped some kind of mind-altering chemical into the water supply!

The brilliant economists of America (whose closest interactions with the peons on the streets are through spreadsheets) surely have more knowledge about the economy's impact on the living conditions of the citizenry than the citizenry themselves! The masses are blind, they must not fall victim to their faulty senses! The economists will guide the citizenry to the glorious truth:

Americans live better lives than they did before! And besides, the happiest people live the simplest lives! Anything bad going on with the economy is only the result of foreign meddling, and everything will be better if you just work harder for the American dream! And remember, when it comes to fuel prices (or any prices, really): "Four is good! Two is bad!"
 
L

lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
iewgnem said:
A healthcare industry that charges $1000 for an ambulance ride is not more productive than a healthcare industry that charges $0 for a ride.

Productivity is output over input, the fallacy with western economics is equating revenue with output, for every $1 of revenue there need to be $1 of expense, real output is how much you get for that $1.

Case in point, the fact that US defence industry generates 4x more revenue than Chinese industry while producing a fraction of Chinese output does not make them 4x more productive, it makes them 4x less productive. The fact that GM generates 2x more revenue per car sold does not make them 2x more productive than BYD, it makes them half. This extend to every other industry.

American productivity is FAR lower than China, if not they would not be paying more on debt servicing than military budget.
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Also well known was that almost the entirety of US manufacturing productivity growth in the last 20 years was a statistical mirage.

People were mistaking price differences year to year of a computer chip for real output growth everywhere.

If your hot NVIDIA AI chip is temporarily 10 times more expensive because of a supply shortage. It doesn't mean the manufacturing technology suddenly became many times more productive from last year.

And that growth somehow was treated as sector wide manufacturing productivity growth instead of a distortion that screwed US policy for decades. That's why people who overly focus on macroeconomics and the 'big' picture are revealing they don't actually know anything specific, to the point of being actively harmful.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
chgough34 said:
Yep. The research papers are leading indicators, on the future,
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Absolutely
chgough34 said:
but for now, US productivity is substantially higher than China
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Which is why China is currently the leading exporter of high tech and you said you can sell real tech but not vaperware?
chgough34 said:
No one seems to be disputing this, but instead, qualifying it on what will happen in the future.
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Well, if you're too scared to read any of the posts disputing it (and I know you can see those posts because that's how "ignoring" someone works here), then I guess nobody's disputing it, right? LOL Sounds like the presentation ranking countries by drone tech with the asterisk at the bottom written in 3 font, "Not including China."
chgough34 said:
And the original point was about the present productivity differences.
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Which only show China overtaking the US before it has even ramped up to its true potential.
chgough34 said:
Appeals to the first derivative are irrelevant.
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We typically learn about first and second derivatives way after learning what a percentage increase means so you'll have to just understand why nobody takes you seriously.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Index said:
The funny thing is that this sort of monopoly money trading between oligarchs inflates the dollar while wages remain stagnant. Huge dollar numbers are now thrown around to buy garbage valued products/services. Saline bag? 100$. Tuition? 200k$. Simple ER visit? 5000$.

And how does US make it bearable for the population? By introducing exceptions. If you work for a company, you can have their insurance. If you join the military, your student debt will be reduced. Exceptions through scholarships, exceptions through company rebates, and so on. How does the company pay for said insurance? State funding and package deals.

See where I'm going with this? US has highly ironically turned itself into a Soviet like economy where many commodities are available only through special exceptions, since the price is pegged so high that you can't afford it by normal wages. You either pay an exorbitant amount, or you have a state issued ration ticket state influenced company issued insurance and pay an affordable token fee.

That's the reason nothing signficant can be manufactured in the US anymore. The buyer/seller system has been completely fucked over by huge handouts from US govt to a few price fixing oligarchs.

Reserve currency is meant in theory to mitigate this, but it doesn't work that way, because the flow of dollars out of US is bottlenecked by what foreign products Americans can buy and will never catch up with the pace the US govt is distributing bailouts, hence the progressive inflation of costs while wages remain stagnant.

For decades, American consumers mainly exported dollars to nearly only 1 country, the only 1 which could provide the advanced appliances and tech they need at prices they can afford after wage stagnation set in. China. But guess what is happening now when US government want to isolate itself from the world.
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It’s pretty much this in a nutshell. They had a good thing going for them before Reaganomics poisoned the well.

 
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