Minsk and Kiev

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Sczepan

Senior Member
VIP Professional
the hull and something more seems to be refittet to use the ships as part of military theme parks, now they make a profit and finance these parts of rebuilding of both ships ....
but this "aera of theme park" could be a temporary interruption; the presentation in theme-park looks like showing the ships by offficial friendship visiting of foreign harbours ;)
it would be intersting to see, whether the engines ar replaced or not :)
 
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PLABUDDY

Junior Member
Sczepan said:
the hull and something more seems to be refittet to use the ships as part of military theme parks, now they make a profit and finance these parts of rebuilding of both ships ....
but this "aera of theme park" could be a temporary interruption; the presentation in theme-park looks like showing the ships by offficial friendship visiting of foreign harbours ;)
it would be intersting to see, whether the engines ar replaced or not :)


Well is minsk still part of that theme park?? I don't like what they have done to that carrier...very disrespectful to the ship!! :)
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
no, I seriously can't read Chinese anymore, haven't used it in almost 10 years.
..................

You forgot your tongue...............

As for China, it should not be aggressive on carriers, but I no doubt say that China needs a carrier, preferably 3.

I don't think China should mess with Kiev or Minsk at all. They are old, and refitting them is a kick in the ass(VERY costly). Plus, the navy does not own them. They are useless anyway.

I think China should if possible refit Varyag into a carrier, though.

Varyag in my build is efficient.
If you count the person to plane ratio, the US CVN has the worst efficiency.
But no doubt do the French has the most efficient carrier. Low displacement to plane AND low person to plane ratio.

I don't see the point of putting ASMs on CVs though.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
If you count the person to plane ratio, the US CVN has the worst efficiency.

Are you refering to the fact that a USN CV has over 5000 personell?..

I never gave that much thought. We always felt that we never had enough people to do the job. ;)

If you ever served on a USN CV you would understand why the crew is so large. The crew is not just suppourting the CV. It is assiting the entire battle group in various task. Also USN carriers are manned to the teeth to provide proper fire fighting and damage control crews.

The US will be reducing the crew size in future CV's...

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LHA/LHD type ships have a crew of 1,000 + 1,900 Marines..air wing included. They carry up to 35 aircraft depending on the mission.

Oh by the way the USN has 12 CV's..12 LHD/LHA's.
 

Sczepan

Senior Member
VIP Professional
PLABUDDY said:
Well is minsk still part of that theme park?? I don't like what they have done to that carrier...very disrespectful to the ship!! :)
Minsk is the center of these theme park. Shenzhen Minsk Aircraft Carrier World was officially opened to the public on September 27, 2000. So far, it has attracted millions of tourists home and abroad with great success. By the end of 2002, it had received 3.5 million tourists, with ticket income approaching 400 million yuan. The company that ran the theme park in south China aboard the retired Soviet aircraft carrier Minsk has been declared bankrupt, the official Xinhua News Agency reported March 2005, after bankrupt of D'Long International (which financed the Minsk Park Company).

So whats to go with the ship when the Minsk Company - which looked out for a white knighter - will be closed?
The Minsk, which was very crappy, was overhauled, may be including some military equipment like torpedoe tubes, anti-ship and air defence missiles. The "fun-equipments" like food kiosk could be removed soon. Also these terrible coloured GROUND ATTACK AIRCRAFTs could be removed, replaced by chinese Naval Helicopters like the KA 28, equipped with dipping sonar and sonobouys including ASW variants and search and rescue (SAR) variants. Also Z-8 Naval Helicopter and Z-8A Army Transport Helicopter and Z-9C Naval Helicopter could be fit at these ships .....
and after that you will see a overhauled heavy aviation crusier, which could be used in his primary purpose, if the ship also got new engines.

May be the PLAN could replace the older weapons (like the SS-N-12) by newest generation (like 3M-80E Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile (SS-N-22)), because the plan have reportedly received over 100 3M-80E Moskit missiles from Russia. But thats not necessery to form a powerful military cruiser.
After all - to me it seems the ship only use new engines, and this could be done without problems. So the MINSK (and additional the KIEW) would become the backbone of future chinese CBG ......
 

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PLABUDDY

Junior Member
Sczepan said:
Minsk is the center of these theme park. Shenzhen Minsk Aircraft Carrier World was officially opened to the public on September 27, 2000. So far, it has attracted millions of tourists home and abroad with great success. By the end of 2002, it had received 3.5 million tourists, with ticket income approaching 400 million yuan. The company that ran the theme park in south China aboard the retired Soviet aircraft carrier Minsk has been declared bankrupt, the official Xinhua News Agency reported March 2005, after bankrupt of D'Long International (which financed the Minsk Park Company).

So whats to go with the ship when the Minsk Company - which looked out for a white knighter - will be closed?
The Minsk, which was very crappy, was overhauled, may be including some military equipment like torpedoe tubes, anti-ship and air defence missiles. The "fun-equipments" like food kiosk could be removed soon. Also these terrible coloured GROUND ATTACK AIRCRAFTs could be removed, replaced by chinese Naval Helicopters like the KA 28, equipped with dipping sonar and sonobouys including ASW variants and search and rescue (SAR) variants. Also Z-8 Naval Helicopter and Z-8A Army Transport Helicopter and Z-9C Naval Helicopter could be fit at these ships .....
and after that you will see a overhauled heavy aviation crusier, which could be used in his primary purpose, if the ship also got new engines.

May be the PLAN could replace the older weapons (like the SS-N-12) by newest generation (like 3M-80E Supersonic Anti-Ship Missile (SS-N-22)), because the plan have reportedly received over 100 3M-80E Moskit missiles from Russia. But thats not necessery to form a powerful military cruiser.
After all - to me it seems the ship only use new engines, and this could be done without problems. So the MINSK (and additional the KIEW) would become the backbone of future chinese CBG ......

So i see from your post that u think re-fitting Minsk/Kiev as heavy cruiser is going to be good for the PLAN..i agree with equipping them with helicopters and let Varyag carry Su-27s and Su-30s. I once read from an internet article that some of the weapons on Minsk are still in working condition..therefore..if the PLAN can re-fit Minsk and Varyag at same time and commission them one by one,it would be a great boost for them.

Also although minsk/kiev are not owned by the PLAN, they can still take possession of the ship(s) if they wanted to. So my guess is that the PLAN will first finish Varyag, then they will re-fit minsk/kiev or both ships and begin making a PLAN CBG. :)
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
the il-76's are not directly owned by the plaaf, but it uses them. i heard ther kiev was in some debt. maybe the plan can buy it.
 

PLABUDDY

Junior Member
MIGleader said:
the il-76's are not directly owned by the plaaf, but it uses them. i heard ther kiev was in some debt. maybe the plan can buy it.
well if the PLAN commssions any of the 3 soviet carriers it will give the states a headache
 

Sczepan

Senior Member
VIP Professional
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The PLAN with three CV/LPH type ships? Maybe 10 years from now but not in the forseeable future..

US having a heart attack over this? Naw!

No big deal really. The US is planning to move a CVN to Guam or Hawaii. :)

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And if that's not enough the USN will have LA class subs shadow those ships everywhere they go! :)
 
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