Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades later.

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

bladerunner said:

True, but the political leaders have to sign off on the direction of any economic proposal.
Even in america the Pres. has to sign off as well. Look how Bush's restriction on stem cell reserch held america back in relation to other countries.

I think what the writer is suggesting a swing back to party ideology (whatever that might be at any particular time) being more important, when deciding on the approch to economic growth.
Ive read other articles which suggest aspects of Maoism is regaining popularity in the rural areas and smaller cities/towns?.

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If what you say is true, the leader of a country has to be Jack of all trades since he/she is leading a nation and has to make decisions on every aspect of the country, from transportation to communication to high tech to housing to investment to... to... to... to.... I mean everything. So a good leader has to be an expert on everything. This is humanly impossible. So what a leader needs is NOT expertise in actual work, but vision. Like I said before, they got the cabinet to take care of the concrete matters.

About the stem cell research, it's not the personal belief of Bush II that determined the restriction on stem cells. It was the overall political environment in the US at the time. Bush II had to do what he did because his political base was the GOP conservatives and they strongly opposed stem cell research. It had nothing to do with his expertise on the matter. He could be an expert on stem cell, but if he wanted to get support from GOP, he had to oppose stem cell. It's pure political. Like I said, these people are politicians and they do whatever they can to survive and thrive. This would include doing things that are against their own personal beliefs. This has nothing to do with their expertise.

About the resurface of Maoism in some area in China. This, IMO, has nothing to do with ideology. It's because many people in China don't like the wealth gap and hate the injustice happening now in China. They naturally remember the good old days when everyone was poor and there was no one they could be jealous of. And no one had to worry about anything since the govn't took care of everyone. In other words, some people are jealous and wanted to go back to the old way even if it means dragging everyone down. This will NOT affect how CHina will progress, however. This is because, on a personal level, most of the leadership has enjoyed their power for a long time. These are the people who benefit from the rise of China the most. Most of the billionaires/millionaires in China have some connection with the govn't. If they chose to go back to the old ways, it would mean they would also lose all the privileges and the wealth. In communism, they would have to give all the things back to the govn't. No one will do it. On the nation level, there is no doubt that China is going the right way. I don't think anyone is doubting that at all. So it would be insane that some in the leadership would suggest to go back to the old ways.

The maoism will go away slowly when the poor people in China become wealthier, when welfare system gets better, and justice system become more mature.

On the notion that the Chinese govn't is putting emphasis on ideology now, my personal opinion is that this is an excuse for Hu to promote his faction and his people. Since he used to the head of some kind of communist youth league organization for a long time, his power base is that organization and most of his loyal followers came from there. It would be natural for Hu to establish his power base by promoting these people. As the article indicates, many of the people getting the promotion came from this said organization. Hu is simply trying to justify the massive promotion of people coming from the party schools by saying that they should emphasize ideology and that this has nothing to do with his personal political ambition.

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

In a roundabout way we have arrived at the same point where both countries leaders pander to their power base. In this occassion Hu, basically a conservative in his handling of things, is ensuring more of the same, with the promotion of his favoured colleagues. IMO the next decade will tell whether his colleagues are capable of establishing a innovative enviroment in China or will party ideology get in the way.:

ff By the way my wife told me she gets 1500 yuan monthly from the Chinese Govt for living expenses while at peking Uni.. Man thats only enough for Three Five star Peking duck meals, I guess she'l have to starve for the rest of the month

P.S. As a comparison, decades ago Nz politicians came mainly from the workforce who felt the need to give something back to their country , with yrs of experice on how things worked in the commercial fields, nz did well. I suppose you could refer to these as the technocrats the last several decades has seen the rise of the professional politician, with degress in the social sciences and political science,lawyers etc very few having done an honest days work and coincidentally NZ's gone backwards.

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

bladerunner said:

P.S. As a comparison, decades ago Nz politicians came mainly from the workforce who felt the need to give something back to their country , with yrs of experice on how things worked in the commercial fields, nz did well. I suppose you could refer to these as the technocrats the last several decades has seen the rise of the professional politician, with degress in the social sciences and political science,lawyers etc very few having done an honest days work and coincidentally NZ's gone backwards.

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Like I said, most of the American presidents since early days of the country are professional politicians, except a few generals. Some of the greatest leaders in this country happened to be professional politicians, like Lincoln, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Jefferson, Franklin, etc. etc. The same can also be said of most of Western nations. One that comes to mind would be Churchill. It has nothing to do with the profession they hold before they take office. And like you said, what's happening in NZ may be coincidental since it actually coincides with the global recession.

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

Nope we were going backwards long before this current recession, directionless politicans with the wrong priorities bear most of the blame

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

bladerunner said:

Nope we were going backwards long before this current recession, directionless politicans with the wrong priorities bear most of the blame

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No, you guys elected them and you guys should be blamed

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

American Industrialists have always had the ear of its politicans on a national and regional level from the beginining of its industrial revolution period, and it has since evolved into a very sophisticated business


Quote No, you guys elected them and you guys should be blamed Quote

You've got to experience NZ politics

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

bladerunner said:

ff By the way my wife told me she gets 1500 yuan monthly from the Chinese Govt for living expenses while at peking Uni.. Man thats only enough for Three Five star Peking duck meals, I guess she'l have to starve for the rest of the month

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What? Are you kidding me? When was this? Why does she get money for going to University?

vesicles said:

I don't think I am in a position to say too much about that either. However, in the past, innovation was not encouraged because of the socialist society in China. You got no reward for being creative.

Nowadays, it's a little different. In making money, Chinese can be as creative as they want to be, legally or not. You can tell how creative the Chinese can be by looking at how they make fake products. I once saw on the web about how to make fake eggs. These eggs behave like real ones even in the process of being cooked. I can tell you that we got some innovative people in China

Scientifically, people and the govn't care about making money and the potential to make money too much and forget that sometimes you simply want to do research for the sake of wanting to know. Someone may think it is waste of money and time to develop something that only works in the lab. This view, IMO, is too near-sided. Many great discoveries have been made by people who were simply curious and wanted to know. And later, these technologies become mature enough to be applicable in the real world. In scientific research, you simply have to have an open mind.

Sadly, many Chinese govn't agencies and even including Chinese scientists themselves focus too much on the money-making potential of things and the true scientific research, which is the foundation for all the flashy stuff, become stagnant. I see this view being very popular even among Chinese scientists in the States. Many of my Chinese colleagues only care about what makes money and what kind of projects can help them get a hot job in a pharmaceutical company and focus their project almost squarely on those things. The spirit of science is not there.

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What you have described is, sadly, the growing materialism of Chinese culture. As someone who left China in 89, and went back every 4 or 5 years since, I can really feel the changes.

When I left, I was only in grade two. If you asked kids then what they wanted to be when they grew up, the most popular answers were: Scientist, PLA Soldier, and Policeman.

These days, the most popular answers would be celebrity, CEO, and whatever.

The materialism pervades pretty much everything. It's astonishing how much romance is based on personal wealth. It is said that the guy's family has to have a marriage house before the girl's parents would accept a marriage proposal. Seriously, what the hell?

And those wedding celebrations... it's like a competition to show off who has the most wealth, often to the point of ridiculous excesses.

Unfortunately, as a society, Chinese culture does not encourage individuality. That means kids usually grow up sharing the same values as their parents or peers, and in the last 20 years, the most pervasive value has been money-making.

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

solarz said:

What you have described is, sadly, the growing materialism of Chinese culture. As someone who left China in 89, and went back every 4 or 5 years since, I can really feel the changes.

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Yeah, it's like a seriously starved man seeing food for the first time in a long time. He goes for it and ignores everything else. And those who stand next to him and still can't get food yet become jealous of the guys who already got food. This makes them even crazier. I think many people in China share this mentality in terms of money. They want it and couldn't care less about anything else. Hopefully this mentality will go away when majority of the people gets decent amount of money and gets a chance to look around and care about something else other than money...

Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

solarz said:

What? Are you kidding me? When was this? Why does she get money for going to University?

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No My wife is one of ten New Zealanders studying Chinese at Peking University on a full scholarship granted by Peking authorities. Well weve personally havent spent a dollar, her airfares were even paid for.

This is the third year with such an arrangment between Akld/ and Peking Uni , under some foundation whose name just eludes me at the moment

I was kidding about the ducks though

Edit. Post script. The cost is picked up by the Chinese Sponsered Confucious institute, and an arrangement between the Auckland and Peking Uni.

The materialism pervades pretty much everything. It's astonishing how much romance is based on personal wealth. It is said that the guy's family has to have a marriage house before the girl's parents would accept a marriage proposal. Seriously, what the hell?

And those wedding celebrations... it's like a competition to show off who has the most wealth, often to the point of ridiculous excesses.

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Just the other day I read in our local paper A local police chief in Southern China being investigated, because he spent over $100,000 on his daughters wedding

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Re: Many people say China will catch up or exceed U.S in military strength decades la

vesicles said:

I don't think I am in a position to say too much about that either. However, in the past, innovation was not encouraged because of the socialist society in China. You got no reward for being creative.

Nowadays, it's a little different. In making money, Chinese can be as creative as they want to be, legally or not. You can tell how creative the Chinese can be by looking at how they make fake products. I once saw on the web about how to make fake eggs. These eggs behave like real ones even in the process of being cooked. I can tell you that we got some innovative people in China

Scientifically, people and the govn't care about making money and the potential to make money too much and forget that sometimes you simply want to do research for the sake of wanting to know. Someone may think it is waste of money and time to develop something that only works in the lab. This view, IMO, is too near-sided. Many great discoveries have been made by people who were simply curious and wanted to know. And later, these technologies become mature enough to be applicable in the real world. In scientific research, you simply have to have an open mind.

Sadly, many Chinese govn't agencies and even including Chinese scientists themselves focus too much on the money-making potential of things and the true scientific research, which is the foundation for all the flashy stuff, become stagnant. I see this view being very popular even among Chinese scientists in the States. Many of my Chinese colleagues only care about what makes money and what kind of projects can help them get a hot job in a pharmaceutical company and focus their project almost squarely on those things. The spirit of science is not there.

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Have to agree with you on this. Innovation should be seen as a way to acquire new knowledge rather as a way to get rich. Chinese definately have the innovative mind but adopt the wrong mindset. They don't look far and just only focus too much on the short term gain, often hoping to get rich overnight.

To surpass America, they have to think one or two steps infront of the American. Copying won't get china anywhere.