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Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

That’s the one thing that concerns me regarding the JF-17, is the RD-33/RD-93 engine. There seams to be a tremendous amount of controversy surrounding the reliability and maintenance requirements for this power-plant. However I imagine that an in country engine overhaul facility could be part of the deal

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I think WS-13, the Chinese variant of the RD-93, may solve some of the issues that you listed. Recent breakthroughs in turbofan engines (the recent mounting of the WS-10 on the J-10B) seems to indicate that China is making strides in this area.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Bltizo said:

I thought Indian Mig-21 bisons had some level of BVR?

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Bison is a different beast compare to J-7G. It is far bigger overall and so as the size of the nose cone. Therefore its able to house the krypyo radar.

But the draw back will be the agility will drop. J-7G/E series is basically a Mig-21 F-13 version but with a crank delta wing which increases in wing span and helps to increase it agility over F-13 version and increase fuel loading...

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

LOL!!!!


I don’t want to spread any disinformation, but I remember reading that there was a possibility of installing the Mirage 2000 engine in the JF-17. Has anyone read anything like that?

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prob stem from some ranting I did over there in Keys forum.

M88 wouldn't be a bad fit, if Argentina wants pay for integration.

If you think RD93 is a liability then F404 or even F414 prob would be the best alternative.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

i.e. said:

prob stem from some ranting I did over there in Keys forum.

M88 wouldn't be a bad fit, if Argentina wants pay for integration.

If you think RD93 is a liability then F404 or even F414 prob would be the best alternative.

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That’s ok. I just didn’t want to begin a non documented rumor. Thanks for clearing that up.
The only reason for suggesting the French engine is because Argentina has and Atar engine maintenance facility in Cordoba. This is strictly for ease of maintenance and operational transition.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

siegecrossbow said:

I think WS-13, the Chinese variant of the RD-93, may solve some of the issues that you listed. Recent breakthroughs in turbofan engines (the recent mounting of the WS-10 on the J-10B) seems to indicate that China is making strides in this area.

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Well it seems that the WS-13 would be the most preferable engine for the JF-17. With the quality falling somewhere between Russian and western turbofans. Do you know if the Russians have made any progress in improving the quality of the turbofan?

However, having the JF-17 with the RD-33 and the Mig-29 with the same engine would be a maintenance advantage. What do you think of a mix of 18 Mig –29 and 54 JF-17 totaling four squadrons of 18 aircraft?
Of course the preferable mix would be 18 J-11 and 54 J-10, but the piggy bank isn’t that large.

Also do you think the JF-17 will be equiped with IRST in the future?

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

I believe IRST is down the pipeline for the next JF-17 block but there's nothing super concrete.

I imagine CAC could include one if the customer requested it.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

Well it seems that the WS-13 would be the most preferable engine for the JF-17. With the quality falling somewhere between Russian and western turbofans. Do you know if the Russians have made any progress in improving the quality of the turbofan?

However, having the JF-17 with the RD-33 and the Mig-29 with the same engine would be a maintenance advantage. What do you think of a mix of 18 Mig –29 and 54 JF-17 totaling four squadrons of 18 aircraft?
Of course the preferable mix would be 18 J-11 and 54 J-10, but the piggy bank isn’t that large.

Also do you think the JF-17 will be equiped with IRST in the future?

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JF-17 will be at the mercy of Russians for quite a while. WS-13 is new and will have a lot of problems.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

nosh said:

JF-17 will be at the mercy of Russians for quite a while. WS-13 is new and will have a lot of problems.

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Whats the problem? Anyway they don't like the British too.

I don't see WS-13 will have lots of problem? WS-10 development already bear the brute of hardship for developing a capable modern turbofan. Develop subsequence modern turbofan will be easier and faster. If you try to use developing WS-10 timeframe to gauge WS-13 then is wrong. Don't believe me?

How long is the development of J-10? And how long is the development of FC-1/JF-17? Don't tell me both are the same? And which started out first? And the best of all. WS-13 is a step down compare to WS-10.. So what kind of lots of problem?
Previous painful experience will be absorb and be avoid for the next project.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Excuse my ignorance of the WS-13 turbofan. From what I gather you are saying that there should be no problem with the new engine, and that it should perform as well or better that the RD-33 (in regards to maintenance).
Is the WS-13 based on RD-33 technology, and if so what is the commonality of components between the two?

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

If that is a possibility then that would enhance the JF-17s capability against an F-16.
With all the F-16’s that will be becoming available on the second hand market in the next decade we will very likely see encounter between these two aircraft.