Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: New life to older aircraft

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the concept art makes me worried it looks like the gun is missing. The AVENGER is the best feature of the A10 a cannon that chews up tanks and spits 30mm Death worthy of being called a "Force of Nature"

Based on this simple mathematics (or accounting if you prefer), aircraft on the 5th, and all sorts of "4 + +" generations will lose to more simple and cheaper solutions, particularly in the markets of the Third World. Technical complexity and versatility will surely provide strategic advantage, but only in combination with a sufficient quantity. The latter will be impossible to reach due to the high price. Having invested heavily in a relatively small fleet of technically advanced aircraft, the air force of a small country is at risk of finding itself in this type of situation. The few assets that it has will be spread thin and air command will be less likely to authorize high risk missions in fear of loosing the few units the air force has.

This may open up the door to modernizing older 3rd generation aircraft. However I see, a crisis is in store for manned aviation against the backdrop of rising prices and increasing requirements for training of pilots. The number of countries that can afford modern piloted aircraft will inevitably decline. Sooner or later, this number will coincide with the number of countries-manufacturers. As a result, aviation producers will have to choose from either internal markets or a very narrow circle of several potential customers who will be able to afford to have and upgrade a fleet of "fourth" and "fifth" generation fighters.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: New life to older aircraft

That may be possible but then again it might not. There are two other trends that have to be taken into account. One is numbers. As time moves by and generational technology is farther dispersed throughout the world it becomes easier to low budget knock offs. Look at the Gen 4s around the world now we have the big names sure but you also have lesser names joining in. F-CK (I cringe everytime I see that designation), and FA50 for example low cost simple 4 gens built by nations that really didn't seem on the aviation industry radar.
The trend it seems to me will be a graduated proliferation of newer types among those nations who have the economic and political environment stable enough for fighters. But along side this will be drones and drones will be everywhere. Already we have seen a commercial enterprise envision drone product delivery in a civilian market. The US, Israel have been drone kings but with the Chinese now jumping all in I suspect that even nations who have never operated a air force of there own will be flying around UAVs.
Additionally I suspect that for those who still don't go for air forces there may be another in. Private Military Companies. We already have corporations that operate former military aircraft Openly as Aggressor squadrons for contract. And over the last century of flight history is replete with cases of mercenary fighters in the air. The American volunteer corps "Flying Tigers" is IMHO part of the future. Former military personnel and pilots flying private aircraft in either air to ground operations or maybe just maybe Air to air all on a nations tab. This may create a market for cheaper up to date late Gen fighters and attackers.

no that has little though to do with this A10 concept. As A10 is a purely American ground pounding tank on wings. But turning her into a Drone strike platform is IMHO the best idea EVER!!!
 
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Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: New life to older aircraft

F-CK (I cringe everytime I see that designation),
I couldn’t help but laugh out loud when I read that statement. Good one!

You are very astute in your assessment. It could also be a combination of both depending on the inventory of the air force in question. If they possess operational and low hour 3rd generation aircraft then an inexpensive solution would be to upgrade. If a viable inventory of aircraft is unavailable then they may team up with a partner nation to construct a lower budget 4th generation aircraft. It all comes down to economics.

We are in complete agreement that UAVs, strike drones, etc. will play a much larger part in all air forces and this will open up a complete new set of tactics to combat or defend them.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft

Air Support for ground forces

Light-attack turboprops are cheap both to build and to fly. A fighter jet can cost $US60 to $US80m. By contrast the EMB314, a light-attack turboprop made costs barely $8m. It also costs as little as $500 a hour to run when it is in the air, compared with $10,000 or more for a fighter jet. And, unlike jets, turboprops can use roads and fields for takeoff and landing

Nor is it only jets that light-attack turboprops can outperform. Armed drones have drawbacks, too. The Reaper can cost $10m or more, depending on its equipment. On top of that, a single drone can require a team of more than 20 people on the ground to support it, plus satellite communications. A manned turboprop can bomb an insurgent for a third of the cost of using a drone, and there are strategic considerations, too. Many countries' armed forces rely on allies such as America for the expertise and satellite networks needed to run drones. Such allies can let you down in a pinch. Piloted light-attack planes offer complete operational independence—and, being lower-tech than many drones, are less subject to restrictions on exports in the first place.

They are also better, in many ways, than helicopters. To land a chopper safely in the dirt requires sophisticated laser scanners to detect obstacles hidden by dust thrown up by the downdraught of the rotors. On top of this, such dust makes helicopter maintenance even more difficult than it is already. Maintaining turboprops, by contrast, is easier.
Turboprops are also hard to shoot down. The Pucara IA-58 took many hits from ground fire—Despite some planes' having been hit by more than 200 rounds, though, many pilots and aircraft returned to base.

In part, this is because of the robust mechanics of turboprops. Add extra fuel tanks, which let the plane stay aloft for more hours hours, six 225kg precision-guided bombs and more than 1,500kg of missiles, rockets and ammunition for two 50-calibre machineguns or 20mm gun (depending on the turboprop), and you have a formidable yet reasonably cheap warplane.

Light-attack aircraft also now sport much of the electronics used by fighter jets. The MX-15, an imaging device made by L-3 WESCAM, a Canadian company, allows a pilot to read a vehicle's license plate from a distance of 10km. It is carried by both the AT-802U and the AT-6, a top-of-the-range light-attack plane made by Hawker Beechcraft.

Not surprisingly, then, many countries with small defence budgets are investing in turboprops. Places that now fly them, or are expected to do so, include Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Indonesia, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco and Venezuela. And the United States AT-26. For the biggest military establishment in the world, too, recognises the value of this new old technology. The American air force plans to buy more than 100 turboprops and the navy is now evaluating the Super Tucano, made by Embraer, a Brazilian firm. In aerial combat, then, low tech may be the new high tech.
 

shen

Senior Member
Re: Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft

Light COIN aircraft has two functions, surveillance and light attack, with emphasis on the former.

1) all air force need some basic trainer. you don't have to pay extra money for them, might as well hang some light bombs off whatever trainer you already have and use them for relatively safe missions.
2) the traditional COIN aircraft can't compete with UAVs in terms of loiter time and cost of operation, and you don't risk pilots. Something like the Chinese Pterodactyl armed UAV would be perfect.
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If you are really short on cash, and don't want to pay for satellite support, China even sells a UAV called CH-3 that doesn't require satellite support, at the price of operational range restricted to 200km, still 12h loiter time though. ch-3b.jpgch-3.jpg
3)finally, in your are really doing classic COIN, you also need a cheap light transport plane. which is probably even more important than the attackers.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft

Light COIN aircraft has two functions, surveillance and light attack, with emphasis on the former.

1) all air force need some basic trainer. you don't have to pay extra money for them, might as well hang some light bombs off whatever trainer you already have and use them for relatively safe missions.
2) the traditional COIN aircraft can't compete with UAVs in terms of loiter time and cost of operation, and you don't risk pilots. Something like the Chinese Pterodactyl armed UAV would be perfect.
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If you are really short on cash, and don't want to pay for satellite support, China even sells a UAV called CH-3 that doesn't require satellite support, at the price of operational range restricted to 200km, still 12h loiter time though. View attachment 8835View attachment 8836
3)finally, in your are really doing classic COIN, you also need a cheap light transport plane. which is probably even more important than the attackers.


Argentina is also producing a non-GPS UAV for battlefield surveillance and artillery observer similar as to what you have described:
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It however, cannot carry a payload.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Re: Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft

From the Q-5 thread, Textron Scorpion just had its maiden flight last week:

[video=youtube;CQgcUQiFuxs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQgcUQiFuxs[/video]
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Here is a cockpit photograph of an existing Mirage III of the FAA and one of the “newer” Mirage F-1 cockpits. Interesting how everyone else is decommissioning the F-1 and the FAA is purchasing them. I have to keep telling myself that this is a stopgap measure (due to cominality of parts) until the JF-17, or other is placed in service.

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Mirage III (retired)
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Mirage F-1 from Spain

I was adding up how many Mirage (and Mirage types) the FAA had at one time.:
17 Mirage IIIE from France
19 Mirage III CJ from Israel
10 Mirage V from Peru
46 Neshers from Israel
For a total of 92 mirage type aircraft
 
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