Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

antiterror13 said:

How about Chinese F-7G, it is a very good, cheap and proven fighter with BVR (limited) capability, it is better than F-16A/B. Perhaps PRC would sell her existing F-7Gs to Argentina cheaply

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I don't think any J-7 variant ever built has BVR capability in any form? They were only armed with SRAAMs?

I think Argentina should go for JF-17, if there are just only four typhoons stationed at the falklands??

You could get quite a few JF-17s (6? Depends how expensive EF actually is -- I'm getting 90kk euros on wiki, ie ~130kk USD? JF-17 unit price is 20kk USD) in exchange for a typhoon. Of course that means more money for maintenance of more aircraft, and there's also UK reinforcements to contest with, not just fighters but type 45 destroyers...
But the prudent choice right now is for the argentines to expand the sheer number of their fighters (the few mirages and skyhawks are definitely not enough). Money money..

(better yet, buy a few longer ranged cruise missiles so you won't have to deal with typhoons in the air at all. Do bases on the falklands have significant C-RAM protection?)

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Going with those figures would put 26 JF-17's against 4 Typhoons ,quite a handful IMO.Even just having these or the cruise missiles would rock the UK to the bone as it currrently makes even further cuts (7,000 jobs) to it's defence.If it happens soon it could force a shift in UK defence policy and cause (previously)unnecessary and unaffordale spending but i think the UK defence will grow stronger over time as a direct result of it's budget strategy now, putting it in a good position to deal with anything Argentina could threaten it with.
In saying that,who knows how all this economic turmoil in the world will pan out in the future so anything goes at the moment.We may never get the use of the carriers we are bulding for instance if things gets worse.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Bltizo = don't think any J-7 variant ever built has BVR capability in any form? They were only armed with SRAAMs?

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Yes, J-7G/BG is BVR capable (widely known)

read Bangladesh section

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

antiterror13 said:

Yes, J-7G/BG is BVR capable (widely known)

read Bangladesh section

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Erm that wikipedia entry leads to a citation from bangladesh defence forums.
neither huitong or sinodefence have anything about J-7G or an J-7 export to any country able to fire BVR, and we've seen no pictures of any J-7 carrying PL-11 or PL-12 or foreign BVRAAMs either.

antiterror13 said:

How about Chinese F-7G, it is a very good, cheap and proven fighter with BVR (limited) capability, it is better than F-16A/B. Perhaps PRC would sell her existing F-7Gs to Argentina cheaply

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J-7G, that is a pretty ridiculous suggestion. I think Argentina could afford much better planes than that. JF-17 is probably the bottom line.

antiterror13 said:

Bltizo said:

I don't think any J-7 variant ever built has BVR capability in any form? They were only armed with SRAAMs?

Yes, J-7G/BG is BVR capable (widely known)

read Bangladesh section

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

The size of the radar in a J-7 is limited by the small nose cone (result of using nose intake). I highly doubt that any J-7 variant, no matter how advanced, has BVR capabilities.

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Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Agreed. I had heard that the Brazilians were involved in bringing the Vulcan in...thank you for correcting that misconception.

Back to the topic then...I do not honestly know what fighter the Argentines are going to select. A few high end, or more numerous less capable.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

antiterror13 said:

How about Chinese F-7G, it is a very good, cheap and proven fighter with BVR (limited) capability, it is better than F-16A/B. Perhaps PRC would sell her existing F-7Gs to Argentina cheaply

Click to expand...

Interesting suggestion. However, the J-7 has several drawbacks:

One being the small radom size which or course leads to a smaller radar antenna and has a disadvantage in the utilization of BVR missile systems against a F-16. However once the dogfight begins then thing are a little more equal, but still tilted in the F-16’s favor.

Two being the short range of the J-7. By the time you reach near Mach two you are already look for a place to land.

Three being that you might as well purchase use Mirage III from Pakistan, since that way you don’t need to retrain mechanics and pilots on new equipment. The J-7 technology (airframe and engine) is on par with the existing fleet of Mirage III

Four being the attack payload of the J-7 is barely 2.000 kg not enough to be either an attack aircraft of an air defense aircraft.

Argentina would be better off purchasing the heavily upgraded F-5 from the Brazilian Air Force. The Brazilian F-5M is also equipped with the Israeli Derby missile and can operate in a BVR environment. In the Cruzex 2006 multinational war games, a Brazilian F-5 made simulated kills on two French Dassault Mirage 2000N aircraft, which were supported by an E-3 Sentry and escorted by other two Mirage 2000C. This result was achieved by using the Derby and the information relayed by datalink from an AEW&C plane, the Embraer R-99, fitted with the Erieye AESA radar.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Jeff Head said:

I do not honestly know what fighter the Argentines are going to select. A few high end, or more numerous less capable.

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Jeff, you just hit the nail on the head! All of the combat aircraft that the FAA has purchased have been second hand (with the exception of the 18 Mirage IIIEA and Super Etendard purchased in the 1970). Therefore I don’t see the situation changing any.
Look at how meticulously upgraded and maintained the existing fleet of Mirage III, V and neshers has been kept. The Ministry of Defense should be looking a new aircraft that will fit the bill for national air defense and UN missions, and not search for second hand aircraft that are expedient to obtain and can be easily absorbed.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

As a side note, it will be interesting to see when the JSF production lines are increase in the future, there will be many left over USAF F-16s and F-15s flooding the used marketplace. It will fulfill the used buyers dream; hundreds of aircraft for a fire sale price!!!!! When this happens, don't expect too many sales of new aircraft, especially in Latin America. Unfortunately I see the Mirage fleet and the A-4s dieing a pauper’s death.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

The JF-17/FC-1 utilizing the SNECMA M53-P2 powerplant and Israeli avionics, this aircraft would have a good change against the 10 F-16 C/D and 36 F-16 A/B in the Chilean Air Force inventory.

The J-10 would be an incredible aircraft to have, but I agree that the Chinese many not want to let their best “new” fighter out of their control just yet.

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don't forget awacs. it is a real force multipiler and I would go for them first.

Brazil has erieeye and so does PAF.
PAF also is the prime contractor for FC-1.

presumablly FAA could send some body over to PAF to peak around how FC-1s and ErieEye are working together... i Would not be surprised that FC-1s are linked some how with ErieEye.

also don't count out RD-33s, yeah they suck but they are cheap.

if really want something classy Argentina can buy some American F404s, plenty of spares floating around, and dimensions have no problem fit into FC-1s. paks facilities can act as a thrid party integrator.

If argentina really wants to have some long range punch....

May I suggest JH-7A.

can carries 2 c802s or 2 big standoff munitions KD-88 (sorta like a landattack harpoon) and has no problem reach way out into atlantic.

best of all JH-7A is cheap. I wouldn;t be surprised that 2x c802 + a JH-7A would cost less than a cool $20 mil.

imagine 200 mil dollar buys a squadron of Jh-7 let off a 24 missile salvo on whatever comes...
how many Rafales can you buy for 200 mil?

So my list:

ErieEye.
FC-1s.
and may be JH-7s if have spare change.