Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

nosh said:

Argentina needs fighter to face the Eurofighters UK stationed in Falkland Islands. Its requirement is similar to Pakistan's to counter MMCA. FC-1 has no chance. An improved J-10 (with better engine) is possible.

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one don't need to match the opposing figher 1 to 1 to effectively surppress them.

get something that can face Typhoons in a2a you need a bigger bank account.

J-10 with upgrade still need some help defeating phoons in a pure a2a scenario.

waves of FC-1 with riple fire SD-10s and awacs and jammers!

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

nosh said:

Argentina needs fighter to face the Eurofighters UK stationed in Falkland Islands. Its requirement is similar to Pakistan's to counter MMCA. FC-1 has no chance. An improved J-10 (with better engine) is possible.

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The UK keeps 4 Eurofighters stationed at the RAF Mount Pleasant Air Field (built after the War) in the Falkland Isands at all times. The Air Base also has a port facility and usually one Offshare Patrol Vessel (currently the P257 HMS Clyde) is stationed there permanently, and a Type 42 DDG is rotated in and out.

To counter that the Argentines have one Type 42 DDG of their own, and four, smaller MEKO 360H2 destroyers (really frigates IMHO), along with 6 Meko 140A16 Corvettes and three Drummon Corvettes and three fairly modern SSks, which would have to counter an almost certain UK SSN which would get there as quickly as possible. In addition, the Argentine Air Force consists of 6 Mirage 5's and 6 IA1 Finger (Mirage 5 derivative from Israel), along with 8 or 9 Mirage 3s to use as fighters. These may overwhelm the four Eurofighters...but the UK would send back a lot more and I do not think the currrent Argentine Air Force (unless they got help from Brazil) could not hold them off unless they procure quite a few more advanced fighters to hold the air when the counter attack came.

The Argentines would have to overwhelm the UK forces with their own and then, as I said, establish and maintain air dominance as the UK would surely respond with aircraft staging out of Ascension Island and Wideawake Airfield there with aerial refueling.

It may not seem likely, but earlier this year, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina showed solidarity in not allowing the HMS Clyde to dock (Brazil refused her in Rio) on the mainland because of continuing disagreements over this issue and the UKs use of resource (particulalry oil) as a result of it.

I hope it does not happen, and do not believe the UK would back down...but with no carrier availability, if it is going to happen, it would probably take place some time before the new Queen Elizabeth comes on line.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

T-U-P said:

Even if there is no threat currently, it doesn't mean a nation shouldn't keep a modern defence force. After all, buying equipments, getting those equipments delivered, and training on them takes a long long time. By the time a threat emerges, it would be too late if you are unprepared ahead of time.

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That's a very fair point, an argument I've made myself in the past - doh!

nosh said:

Argentina needs fighter to face the Eurofighters UK stationed in Falkland Islands.

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Assuming that Argentina wants to keep the right to launch an attack on the Falklands! Really I'd hope that, whether or they still hope for gaining the islands peacefully, they've moved on from the idea of trying to grab them by force. Not that I would want this to happen, but if it came to it sub-launched Tomohawks could cause misery for Argentina.

Jeff Head said:

It may not seem likely, but earlier this year, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina showed solidarity in not allowing the HMS Clyde to dock (Brazil refused her in Rio) on the mainland because of continuing disagreements over this issue and the UKs use of resource (particulalry oil) as a result of it.

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South America could offer Argentina all the diplomatic support it wanted, but there's always Chile! And I think that after all the British personnel that have died in Afghanistan and Iraq the British people would expect the US to help out in some practical fashion.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

If Brazil gets Rafales for instance, it may be worthwhile for Argentina to do the same to simplify support issues and allow for more thorough cross-training.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

montyp165 said:

If Brazil gets Rafales for instance, it may be worthwhile for Argentina to do the same to simplify support issues and allow for more thorough cross-training.

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Didn't Brazil find the Rafale too expensive or something? I hadn't been keeping up with the tender so I don't know the latest developments.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

The US would likely do exactly what they did in the Falklands war. Give the UK a lot of operational, comm, logistics. etc. support. No dount the US would favor the UK more, but...the US and Argentina are also fairly friendly. Argentina acutally participated in Iraqi Freedom...not nearly as large as the UK ...but they were there.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Jeff Head said:

The US would likely do exactly what they did in the Falklands war. Give the UK a lot of operational, comm, logistics. etc. support. No dount the US would favor the UK more, but...the US and Argentina are also fairly friendly. Argentina acutally participated in Iraqi Freedom...not nearly as large as the UK ...but they were there.

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Argentina learned its lesson the first time. Hypothetically, if they invaded again while the UK lacked carriers (waiting for the new class and the F-35 to come into service), the Royal Navy could still probably enforce a blockade and destroy any airfields on the islands with Tomahawks/Tornados on long in-air refueled flights out of Saint Helena. Starve the garrison out. In any case I don't think anyone in South America has a desire to fight any sort of serious war anytime soon.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

siegecrossbow said:

J-10 is well suited for the interception role. What are you talking about?

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I am a little old timer on this, when use the term "interceptor", the image emerges in my mind is always something flys high, flys fast, flys far, and shoot BVRAAMs. The interceptor is supposed to intercept nothing but enemy bombers on their way to wreck your nation (before they did), so time is of essence (time cost of "shoot down the enemy" is of essence)

J-10 is a good multi-role (which anti-fighter is the main role) 3rd gen fighter, but not dedicated to traditional "interception".

Anyway, this is a very good thread for some reading, I guess the east pacific don't have that "bomber's threat" like west pacific had, at all. As for Argentina herself, I think more quantity of fighters doing their job during war time, is more useful (and vital) than a few better quality fighters. Typhoon and any possible British reinforcements are a greater force than FC-1 or J-10 anyway; and another lesson I think the Argentine would learnt from the last war is that ammo would running out quicker than you think, if you use "too hi-tech" stuff (not to mention boycott by your contractor, the same one supplys Rafales) .

- In all, quantity matters, when quality difference is not THAT significant.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Finn McCool said:

Argentina learned its lesson the first time. Hypothetically, if they invaded again while the UK lacked carriers (waiting for the new class and the F-35 to come into service), the Royal Navy could still probably enforce a blockade and destroy any airfields on the islands with Tomahawks/Tornados on long in-air refueled flights out of Saint Helena. Starve the garrison out. In any case I don't think anyone in South America has a desire to fight any sort of serious war anytime soon.

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I agree. I do not expect it and certainly hope it does not happen.

But just the same, Argentina continues to assert their claim and Brazil and Uruguay backs them...even beyond diplomatically at times. Remember, the Brazilians forced a UK bomber down during the war and imprisoned the crew for a week or ten days during the war.

If the right events took place and Argentina felt goaded, and the opportunity...they might still try. Although they lost, they also fought hard and bloodied the UK pretty well with their air attacks on the Navy.

I just do not think they have the proper air force assets to maintain air supremacy or even superiority over the islands should they be able to take them again. They would need a good fighter and quite a few of them...something better than the Mirage 5s they have.

Let's hope it is all simple conjecture.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Red___Sword said:

I am a little old timer on this, when use the term "interceptor", the image emerges in my mind is always something flys high, flys fast, flys far, and shoot BVRAAMs. The interceptor is supposed to intercept nothing but enemy bombers on their way to wreck your nation (before they did), so time is of essence (time cost of "shoot down the enemy" is of essence)

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Here is where you have miss conceptions. Interceptors don't necessarily have to refer to fighters that have limited maneuverability and primarily target bombers. Both the F-14 Tomcat, F-15, and the F-22 are great interceptors despite the fact that they are designed with air superiority in-mind.

The J-10A's ramped air-intake reflects the PLAAF's demand for high-speed capabilities.