London Summer Olympics 2012

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Strategy in sports is now equivalent to life and death situations? Okay then... In the War on Terror, the US outsources torture to other countries so they can say they didn't torture anyone and then attack other countries for torturing people like they themselves never do it. Oh btw waterboarding by the CIA never happened. They say people who believe in human rights are a people of conscious. Where's your conscious now? Yeah and some are going to complain about something that didn't break any rules unlike the Japanese women's soccer team that held back for a tie so the team didn't have to suffer from travelling like others teams have to. Or the gold medal winning British cyclist who at first crashed after a bad start so the race can start over and benefit from those loopholes in the rules.
 
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It seems that you can't tell the difference between legality and righteousness. Yes, it is wrong for on-looker to ignore the injured person, but they cannot be punished by law. As a person with good moral value, I should help friends in need. So should I be punished if I refused to lend a good friend of mine $10,000 when asked? You can say I should be ashamed of myself for not lending the money to my buddy, but you CANNOT sue me for not being a good friend to someone.

There is a clear distinction between breaking the law and not being a righteous person. People hire accountants to exploit loopholes in tax laws to avoid paying taxes. Is this the same as tax evasion? As a righteous and honest person, you SHOULD pay taxes based on how much you actually make annually. However, most people find it absolutely OK to avoid paying the full amount of taxes they actually owe to the govn't. They find loopholes in tax laws to do it. IRS knows about it. They can't do anything about it. In fact, they themselves do the same thing. I would assume you do it too? Tax shelters, anyone? WHY? because it is NOT illegal!!! This is different from avoiding paying taxes ILLEGALLY, i.e. breaking the tax law!!

The badminton incident is clearly the case where players exploited the loopholes in the rules. They DID NOT break any rules since IOC has not clearly indicated which sections of which chapter of the rule book these player broke. So the most the IOC should do is to discourage players from doing it again since this is something a righteous person would do. However, they cannot be punished since no rule forbids intentional losing. Even in the professional sports world, where intentional losing occurs a lot, there is no rules against it. In fact, many sports leagues design their rules to discourage intentional losing, but cannot do anything to punish the team doing it although they know fully well that intentional losing hurt their fans and ultimately their pockets. One good example is the lottery system in the NBA. Some bad teams would intentionally lose games to gain the #1 draft pick if a potential future superstar enters the draft. Thus, the NBA designed a lottery system, where having the worst record in the league would not guarantee you the top pick.

If you think these players should be punished, please indicate to us which rules these players violated. Don't cite the Olympic spirit thing cause it is NOT in the book. If you think it is, enlighten us which chapter, which section and which page it is on. And how should the players be punished? Is it one game suspension, ten game suspension, or lifetime ban for not having Olympic spirit?

Very well said vesicles. I especially liked how you proposed the philosophy argument, and then offer your final point in relevance to the Olympic incident
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The dangers of throwing stones from glass houses.


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IOC formally strips Tyler Hamilton of Athens gold
By STEPHEN WILSON | Associated Press – 5 hrs ago


LONDON (AP) — Just days before the eight-year deadline expires, the IOC formally stripped American cyclist Tyler Hamilton of his 2004 gold for doping Friday and awarded the medal to a Russian rider who now becomes a three-time Olympic champion.

The International Olympic Committee executive board notified Hamilton — a former teammate of Lance Armstrong — that he has been disqualified from his victory in the road race time trial at the Athens Games.

The medal will now go to Viatcheslav Ekimov, another former Armstrong teammate who already has two Olympic golds. American Bobby Julich will be moved up from bronze to silver, and Michael Rogers of Australia from fourth to bronze.

After years of denials, Hamilton told CBS's "60 Minutes" last year that he had repeatedly used performance-enhancing drugs. The IOC asked for documents from the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency before reallocating the medals.

"Hamilton will be asked to hand the medal back and there will be an exchange of medals with the other athletes," IOC spokesman Mark Adams said.

The IOC's move to change the medals was first reported Thursday by The Associated Press.

The IOC has an eight-year statute of limitations for changing Olympic results. The period expires at the end of this month.

USADA said at the time of Hamilton's doping admission that he had turned over his gold medal to the doping agency, but the IOC had not received it and the race result had not been officially overturned.

Hamilton sent a letter to IOC President Jacques Rogge on June 28 volunteering to give up the medal and withdraw his name from the record of Olympic champions.

"I very much appreciate that you have expressed regret for having used performance-enhancing drugs and that you hope that, through your example and future efforts, this will discourage others from using performance-enhancing drugs," Rogge replied in a July 16 letter to Hamilton.

The Russian Olympic Committee had repeatedly pressed for Ekimov to be upgraded to gold. The Russians failed in a 2006 appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport to have Hamilton's medal given to Ekimov.

The Russian will now receive his third gold, adding to his victories in the track team pursuit at the 1988 Seoul Games and the road time trial at the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

Ekimov rode with Armstrong on the U.S. Postal and Discovery Channel teams. He retired from cycling at the end of the 2006 season but remained in the sport as a director of the Discovery and RadioShack teams.

Before adjusting the results and reallocating the medals, the IOC wanted to be certain there was nothing in the U.S. investigation that implicated Ekimov and other riders or their coaches from the Athens cycling competition.

The IOC could have decided to disqualify Hamilton but not readjust the medals.

Hamilton had already come under investigation by the IOC during the Athens Games, when his initial doping sample indicated he had tested positive for a blood transfusion. The case was dropped after his backup "B'' sample was mistakenly frozen and couldn't be properly tested.

Hamilton tested positive a month later at the Spanish Vuelta. After serving a two-year suspension, he returned to cycling but tested positive again for a banned substance in 2009 and was banned for eight years.

Hamilton, who helped Armstrong win the Tour in 1999, 2000 and '01, accused Armstrong in the CBS interview of doping. Armstrong has denied using performance-enhancing drugs.

USADA officials brought charges of doping against Armstrong in June, threatening to strip him of his Tour de France victories from 1999-2005. A federal grand jury investigation of the cyclist ended four months earlier without indictments.

In a separate doping case, the IOC formally disqualified Italian race walker Alex Schwazer from the games on Friday after his positive test for EPO.

Schwazer, the 2008 gold medalist in the 50-kilometer walk, tested positive in a pre-competition test last month in Italy. He was expelled from the team by the Italian Olympic Committee.

"He has been disqualified and his accreditation taken away, but he has already been sent home by the Italians," Adams said.

The IOC will also investigate Schwazer's coaches and entourage to see if they were involved in doping, and will consider retesting his samples from the Beijing Games.

"There is no hurry for that," Adams said. "We can wait."

The IOC stores doping samples from each Olympics for eight years to allow for retesting. Rashid Ramzi of Bahrain was stripped of his 1,500-meter gold medal after retests of Beijing samples showed use of CERA, an advanced version of EPO.

___

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jackliu

Banned Idiot
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LONDON (Reuters) - China completed a sweep of all the Olympic table tennis golds on Wednesday when their men stormed to victory over South Korea to clinch the team title on the closing day of the London Games tournament.
The heavily favoured Chinese defended their 2008 title by beating South Korea 3-0 to pick up the nation's fourth gold and keep all Olympic titles in Chinese hands for another four years.
"I'm extremely pleased ... I feel so proud that Chinese table tennis has produced the world's most outstanding achievement," China's table tennis and badminton chief Liu Fengyan told Reuters at the ExCel Arena venue.
China swept all four titles at Beijing, and some had wondered whether they could maintain the intensity without the home support at the London Games.
However, a chanting crowd festooned with the red flags of China was in full voice as Ma Long and men's singles champion Zhang Jike won their respective singles matches over Ryu Seungmin and Joo Saehyuk to give the hosts a 2-0 lead.
Wang Hao, who won silver in the men's singles, and Zhang then secured the gold by trouncing Oh Sangeun and Ryu in three sets to clinch the best of five matches final and spark delirious cheering from Chinese fans.
Wang and Zhang embraced and acknowledged roaring fans with pumping fists and a military-style salute before strolling a half-lap of honour around the venue with Ma and their coach.
Ma, who defeated South Korea's Ryu in four sets in the first team rubber, insisted other competing nations still had a chance to chip away at China's dominance.
"There are opportunities. Perhaps they can look to our China team as an example," he said.
China also won two silver medals to clinch six out of the 12 medals on offer and would have likely won more had the sport's federation not limited nations to bringing two players in the men's and women's singles.
"We hope that all countries can continue to improve and push harder and catch up with China," Liu told Reuters.
"Our China was very backward in the 1950s and 1960s, then we became strong and surpassed the others. So anything can happen.
"So we are helping many countries, and backward countries, improve," he said. "Every year we're helping send out coaches to other countries, all with the goal of helping them improve.
"Because a world dominated by China is not very interesting."
South Korea's seasoned men's team, spearheaded by 35-year-old Oh, were pleased to win a silver in their last Olympics after taking bronze at Beijing.
"This medal is especially heavier than the last Olympics so it feels like a real medal now," said Oh. "Even though I'm gutted to get the silver medal, it's still good and I'm proud of myself."
Beijing silver medallists Germany took bronze by defeating Hong Kong 3-1 earlier on Wednesday, with European champion Timo Boll securing the decisive singles victory in four sets over Jiang Tianyi.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
It seems that you can't tell the difference between legality and righteousness. Yes, it is wrong for on-looker to ignore the injured person, but they cannot be punished by law. As a person with good moral value, I should help friends in need. So should I be punished if I refused to lend a good friend of mine $10,000 when asked? You can say I should be ashamed of myself for not lending the money to my buddy, but you CANNOT sue me for not being a good friend to someone.

There is a clear distinction between breaking the law and not being a righteous person. People hire accountants to exploit loopholes in tax laws to avoid paying taxes. Is this the same as tax evasion? As a righteous and honest person, you SHOULD pay taxes based on how much you actually make annually. However, most people find it absolutely OK to avoid paying the full amount of taxes they actually owe to the govn't. They find loopholes in tax laws to do it. IRS knows about it. They can't do anything about it. In fact, they themselves do the same thing. I would assume you do it too? Tax shelters, anyone? WHY? because it is NOT illegal!!! This is different from avoiding paying taxes ILLEGALLY, i.e. breaking the tax law!!

The badminton incident is clearly the case where players exploited the loopholes in the rules. They DID NOT break any rules since IOC has not clearly indicated which sections of which chapter of the rule book these player broke. So the most the IOC should do is to discourage players from doing it again since this is something a righteous person would do. However, they cannot be punished since no rule forbids intentional losing. Even in the professional sports world, where intentional losing occurs a lot, there is no rules against it. In fact, many sports leagues design their rules to discourage intentional losing, but cannot do anything to punish the team doing it although they know fully well that intentional losing hurt their fans and ultimately their pockets. One good example is the lottery system in the NBA. Some bad teams would intentionally lose games to gain the #1 draft pick if a potential future superstar enters the draft. Thus, the NBA designed a lottery system, where having the worst record in the league would not guarantee you the top pick.

If you think these players should be punished, please indicate to us which rules these players violated. Don't cite the Olympic spirit thing cause it is NOT in the book. If you think it is, enlighten us which chapter, which section and which page it is on. And how should the players be punished? Is it one game suspension, ten game suspension, or lifetime ban for not having Olympic spirit?

like i said this become a morality thing. sure stand idle while watching other suffer doesn't break anylaw, but is it right? same with throwing the game, people continue said its right when its obvious its wrong. but if you think its ok, go discuss with other people see how many agree with you on this. heck even the chinese government doesn't agree with you ;)

i'm not even going to say they should be punished or not(especially when referee clearly give them warning), i simply point out throwing the game in olympic is wrong?? the whole discussion about it was whether its wrong or right, correct?

so let me ask you is it throwing the game in olympic right or wrong? This is a simple yes or no answer
 
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s002wjh

Junior Member
Strategy in sports is now equivalent to life and death situations? Okay then... In the War on Terror, the US outsources torture to other countries so they can say they didn't torture anyone and then attack other countries for torturing people like they themselves never do it. Oh btw waterboarding by the CIA never happened. They say people who believe in human rights are a people of conscious. Where's your conscious now? Yeah and some are going to complain about something that didn't break any rules unlike the Japanese women's soccer team that held back for a tie so the team didn't have to suffer from travelling like others teams have to. Or the gold medal winning British cyclist who at first crashed after a bad start so the race can start over and benefit from those loopholes in the rules.

so your try to use excuse of two wrong = right? japan soccer team did exploit the system, they didn't suffer cause they got lucky the referee was lax and don't want to punish them. if you got a speeding ticket while others only got warning, are you gonna use it to justify your case?
 

solarz

Brigadier
like i said this become a morality thing. sure stand idle while watching other suffer doesn't break anylaw, but is it right? same with throwing the game, people continue said its right when its obvious its wrong. but if you think its ok, go discuss with other people see how many agree with you on this. heck even the chinese government doesn't agree with you ;)

i'm not even going to say they should be punished or not(especially when referee clearly give them warning), i simply point out throwing the game in olympic is wrong?? the whole discussion about it was whether its wrong or right, correct?

so let me ask you is it throwing the game in olympic right or wrong? This is a simple yes or no answer


Is it right or wrong for IOC officials to disqualify players who did not break any rules? This is a simple yes or no answer.
 

s002wjh

Junior Member
Is it right or wrong for IOC officials to disqualify players who did not break any rules? This is a simple yes or no answer.

did you read olympic for sport rules or how much authority referee has? referee has EVERY right and authority to eject/disqualify player if they deem its Unsportsmanlike conduct. thats referees authority. in this case the referee give warning to the player, but the behavior continue afterward

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In sports, an ejection (or dismissal or sending-off) is one of several disqualifying actions assessed to a player or coach by a game official (such as a referee or umpire), usually for unsportsmanlike conduct.

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Unsportsmanlike conduct (also called unsporting behaviour or ungentlemanly conduct) is a foul or offense in many sports that is not necessarily a violation of the respective sport's rules of play, but violates the sport's generally accepted rules of sportsmanship and/or participant conduct.,

as for your question yes the referee and IOC has the authority/right to disqualify the athlete if they deem its unsportsmanship
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
so your try to use excuse of two wrong = right? japan soccer team did exploit the system, they didn't suffer cause they got lucky the referee was lax and don't want to punish them. if you got a speeding ticket while others only got warning, are you gonna use it to justify your case?

No rule was broken. What was wrong is some get punished while others don't for doing the exact same thing. You're the one defending two wrongs = right. Everyone should be punished or no one.
 
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s002wjh

Junior Member
No rule was broken. What was wrong is some get punished while others don't for doing the exact same thing. You're the one defending two wrongs = right. Everyone should be punished or no one.

read my previous post. again if the police give you a speeding ticket while others only got a warning. are you gonna argue the other should get ticket too or you should only get a warning. this is depend on the police whether he want to give you a warning or a ticket. the referee in the badminton case already give several warning to the players, and they have authority to disqulify or let the game continue. excuse such as other been treat better is not gonna hold up in the eyes of court or this case IOC commitee. next time you got a speeding ticket and goto court see how this excuse will get you infront of judge.
 
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