Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

Han Patriot said:

I think Taiwan should be more worried that nobody came to defend Ukraine. Taiwan might be facing the same fate. Of course they could reassure themselves that Russia did not advance fats enough, but heck Russia did not even go total war. For Taiwan, I think China must go total war, destruction of Taiwan or surrender.

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Off course. Taiwan is a whole different scenario to Ukraine. Taiwan is not a UN-recognized sovereign country unlike Ukraine. Taiwan is Chinese territory. It is a civil war, hence China has every right to escalate the fighting to total war, to take back a rebellious province. There are no if or buts. No country would willfully accept the breaking up of its own territories. If the free world can accept Ukraine's complain about the separation of Crimea, Donbass, and Luhansk, why then do they interpret it differently for China?

Any country that interferes to aid the Taiwanese separatism can be considered an act of war with China. This is what America and the free world have so much trouble understanding. Imagine if California decides to break-away from the USA. And China or Russia aids California in a war of independence from the USA. Would the USA interpret that as an act of war? Off course it would!

Sardaukar20 said:

True. But the JH-7A is not as well armoured as the Su-25s to engage in Close Air Support. To me, the JH-7A is a rough equivalent to the modernized Russian Su-24. Its a fighter bomber, designed to drop munitions from higher altitudes. It still can do CAS, but it's not optimized for that. So both the JH-7A and Su-25 are indeed ground-attack aircraft, but they do it differently.

Why China is not fielding or even producing dedicated heavily armoured, slow-moving, fixed wing 'flying tank' CAS aircrafts like the Su-25 or A-10. I'm not entirely sure why. Nevertheless, UCAVs have taken on some of the CAS role on the modern battlefield. So China might be considering using UCAVs instead of traditional 'flying tanks'.

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I still see any manned fixed wing aircraft (such as the Su-25 or A-10) as too vulnerable in the CAS role.

I think it's better to expending MALE drones or even smaller drones to have the same effect.

AndrewS said:

I still see any manned fixed wing aircraft (such as the Su-25 or A-10) as too vulnerable in the CAS role.

I think it's better to expending MALE drones or even smaller drones to have the same effect.

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I agree. What use is the extra armour on CAS aircrafts when they are regularly getting shot down over the skies of Ukraine with little survivors? US A-10s would suffer the same fate if it were to conduct operations against the Russians. A-10 armour is not going to hold up well against modern Russian SAMs like the Tor and Buk systems.

Since CAS is extremely dangerous against a modern adversary, MALE drones should be the go-to choice, because they are expendable. Leave the manned aircrafts for stand-off attacks, or large-scale strategic air operations.

Sardaukar20 said:

I agree. What use is the extra armour on CAS aircrafts when they are regularly getting shot down over the skies of Ukraine with little survivors? US A-10s would suffer the same fate if it were to conduct operations against the Russians. A-10 armour is not going to hold up well against modern Russian SAMs like the Tor and Buk systems.

Since CAS is extremely dangerous against a modern adversary, MALE drones should be the go-to choice, because they are expendable. Leave the manned aircrafts for stand-off attacks, or large-scale strategic air operations.

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The other thing is that CAS is conducted to support your ground units - which are in close proximity to enemy forces.

So instead of relying on manned CAS aircraft, why wouldn't the ground units launch their own small drones and quadcopters?

MALE drone i dont think can operate 30mm cannon or rockets burst. i have doubt MALE drone fly low with fast dives.
there is not much evidence Su-25SM fighter shot down at low altitude in this war. only one is admitted to pilot error and that rescued.

pmc said:

MALE drone i dont think can operate 30mm cannon or rockets burst. i have doubt MALE drone fly low with fast dives.
there is not much evidence Su-25SM fighter shot down at low altitude in this war. only one is admitted to pilot error and that rescued.

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But why would you want to operate 30mm cannon or rockets bursts anymore?

They are unguided weapons which is why you have to get really close. So you certainly don't want manned aircraft doing this.

I am just observing what is being used. there must be a merit of using this low altitude flight with CAS aircraft and choppers.

AndrewS said:

But why would you want to operate 30mm cannon or rockets bursts anymore?

They are unguided weapons which is why you have to get really close. So you certainly don't want manned aircraft doing this.

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Most of the Brrrrttt are done as morale boost / demoralizing for the opponents rather than actually effective. MALE drone has much longer loiter time and fly much slower to provide views of the map. SU-25 and A-10 are relics of cold war in anticipating massive armoured spearhead.

Ukraine war is showing that the SU-25 and A-10 are outdated.
They're not tanky enough to tank manpads.

Also it's an illusion that for CAS you need to be actually close, that's a relic of the old times. A pgm from high up can do as much if not more damage than a rocket/cannon run.

IMO a 2 seat high flying fighter-bomber with advanced targeting systems loaded with pgms is the second best CAS you can have (drones #1)

Also that fighter-bomber can also be fast, the flying tanks are slow because the single pilot needs to locate, identify and bomb the targets while flying the aircraft.

pmc said:

I am just observing what is being used. there must be a merit of using this low altitude flight with CAS aircraft and choppers.

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I do think CAS aircraft are a relic from the Cold War.

Helicopters still have utility because they can carry heavier guided weapons and can also provide surveillance.

You can think of helicopters as very large quadcopters or UAVs