Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

pevade said:

Lmao just put a bullet through the phone. Why the over engineering?

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That sounds like a waste of ammunition. Would it be practical to use 1-2 bullets for every phone? Small groups of troops will encounter lots of civilians and need to rapidly destroy all of the phones. If the troops aren't able to do this easily and rapidly and after a week of getting hit by artillery, I fear they are going to take a casual attitude to civilian casualties. Massacres do not help win the war.

I'm not suggesting overengineering. Ideally, a simple modification to existing equipment carried by the rifleman helps destroy phones efficiently.

beijing_bandar said:

That sounds like a waste of ammunition. Would it be practical to use 1-2 bullets for every phone? Small groups of troops will encounter lots of civilians and need to rapidly destroy all of the phones. If the troops aren't able to do this easily and rapidly and after a week of getting hit by artillery, I fear they are going to take a casual attitude to civilian casualties. Massacres do not help win the war.

I'm not suggesting overengineering. Ideally, a simple modification to existing equipment carried by the rifleman helps destroy phones efficiently.

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Seize their phone, throw on ground, stomp on it. Easy.

Seems like a waste of time to have thousands of troops stomping on millions of phones.

beijing_bandar said:

That sounds like a waste of ammunition. Would it be practical to use 1-2 bullets for every phone? Small groups of troops will encounter lots of civilians and need to rapidly destroy all of the phones. If the troops aren't able to do this easily and rapidly and after a week of getting hit by artillery, I fear they are going to take a casual attitude to civilian casualties. Massacres do not help win the war.

I'm not suggesting overengineering. Ideally, a simple modification to existing equipment carried by the rifleman helps destroy phones efficiently.

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Why do you think there will be cell service at all?

beijing_bandar said:

That sounds like a waste of ammunition. Would it be practical to use 1-2 bullets for every phone? Small groups of troops will encounter lots of civilians and need to rapidly destroy all of the phones. If the troops aren't able to do this easily and rapidly and after a week of getting hit by artillery, I fear they are going to take a casual attitude to civilian casualties. Massacres do not help win the war.

I'm not suggesting overengineering. Ideally, a simple modification to existing equipment carried by the rifleman helps destroy phones efficiently.

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In that case just grab their phones and when they have a bunch, just yeet them into a fire.

vincent said:

You suggest the missiles have two antennas in them that can determine the signal sources' directions so the jammer signals can be filtered out.
My solution is for the jammer to generate multiple fake signals for every GPS signal it receives. Every fake signal will amplify certain crests/troughs and negate certain crests/troughs of the real signal, and for each real signal, the jammer generates fake signals with small time shift so the missile can't determine the signal sources' locations.

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With multiple receiving antennae, you should always be able to deconstruct the direction and strength of any individual signals.

You can't change time difference that occurs when incoming signals reach the different an antennae.

On constructive/deconstructive interference of signals, think back to high school physics classes showing the pattern of constructive/destructive waves caused by light. Unless your jammer is directly between the GPS receiver and original source (a satellite), you can't generate the jamming signals to fool all of the GPS receivers.

Also consider the line of sight required to jam a low-flying missile.

AndrewS said:

With multiple receiving antennae, you should always be able to deconstruct the direction and strength of any individual signals.

You can't change time difference that occurs when incoming signals reach the different an antennae.

On constructive/deconstructive interference of signals, think back to high school physics classes showing the pattern of constructive/destructive waves caused by light. Unless your jammer is directly between the GPS receiver and original source (a satellite), you can't generate the jamming signals to fool all of the GPS receivers.

Also consider the line of sight required to jam a low-flying missile.

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GPS signals are not a location information transmission, GPS signals are not tight beams, and a typical GPS receiver is not a directional antenna.

No, GPS antennas are usually omnidirectional. This means that they can receive and transmit signals from and to different directions equally.

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The GPS signal is transmitted with right-handed circular polarization (RHCP) meaning that GPS antennas are usually RHCP and omnidirectional. The near hemispherical radiation pattern of these antennas means that the satellite signal can be received in any direction across the arc of the sky, from zenith to horizon.

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GPS signals do not encode any ground position information within them, only satellite's own time and position data, and satellites own position data is extrapolated, not measured. The only measured data within a GPS signal is the local satellite time encoded by its atomic clock. This means that all GPS satellites are broadcasters by the physical principle of operation.


so you cannot 'only receive GPS signals from space' because 1. GPS receivers do not have angle resolving capability 2. GPS signals aren't ground position signals, they're broadcast timestamps and satellite position signals. They require multiple satellites within line of sight to work by principle of triangulation. All triangulation calculations are done within the receiver.

if a GPS satellite is broadcasting right above the horizon, then the receiver will use it. there is no way for the receiver to distinguish it from an aircraft broadcasting the same signals from the same point on the horizon.

Civilians will not easily turn over their phones, and in east Asia it’s common for people to carry multiple phones. Having to search civilians one at a time for phones is just stupid. But developing something that can zap phones en mass will also likely giving the civilians zapped and soldiers doing the zapping cancer, if not more unpleasant and immediate adverse reactions since our soft human bodies tend to be a lot less robust than phones.

The easiest and most effective way to take phones out of the equation is to simply take down the civilian cell networks and power. No cell signal means phones are now just really overpriced digital cameras, and without power, soon they are just ridiculously overpriced paperweights.

That’s how you effectively deal with phones en mass.

If civilian cell networks and power are part of day one strike targets, there will be precious few mobile phones to need to worry about by the time you have boots on the ground.

Not taking down the power and comms networks in Ukraine on day one has to go down in history as one of the silliest strategic blunders in modern warfare.

plawolf said:

Civilians will not easily turn over their phones, and in east Asia it’s common for people to carry multiple phones. Having to search civilians one at a time for phones is just stupid. But developing something that can zap phones en mass will also likely giving the civilians zapped and soldiers doing the zapping cancer, if not more unpleasant and immediate adverse reactions since our soft human bodies tend to be a lot less robust than phones.

The easiest and most effective way to take phones out of the equation is to simply take down the civilian cell networks and power. No cell signal means phones are now just really overpriced digital cameras, and without power, soon they are just ridiculously overpriced paperweights.

That’s how you effectively deal with phones en mass.

If civilian cell networks and power are part of day one strike targets, there will be precious few mobile phones to need to worry about by the time you have boots on the ground.

Not taking down the power and comms networks in Ukraine on day one has to go down in history as one of the silliest strategic blunders in modern warfare.

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What about satellite phones? I know it ain't exactly something that everyone would have, but how should the PLA deal with those?

ACuriousPLAFan said:

What about satellite phones? I know it ain't exactly something that everyone would have, but how should the PLA deal with those?

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Once the overwhelming majority of civilian cell signals disappear, satellite phones will stick out like sore thumbs to Chinese EW and SIGINT assets, after which ground teams and/or UAVs can be dispatched to its location for observation and/or pickups or just drone strike the satellite phone if the above are no easy options.