Ladakh Flash Point

In any long term and subtle strategy, the shortsighted always get deceived, because they can't see the forest for the trees.

Indian trolls will keep yapping about "winning" while China keeps encircling them in a vice.

Sawhney's analysis today was a good update on the actual state of the play.

jfy1155 said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365714681319485444

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He leaked this in June I think. This got him in huge trouble with the higher ups and in the months that followed, China passed a rule preventing ex-military from giving public talks without authorization.

Xsizor said:

Where did you provide evidence for India not patrolling to Finger 8 ?
You've been rebutted consistently on that . Only a bhakt/Jai Hind would resort to delusions like these .

"close to staus quo ante as you can get." - Nice to see some change.

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When did you provide evidence for India patrolling up to finger 8? Please provide any credible evidence and not claims. Nobody here has been able to do that.

And yes status quo ante has been restored in all areas except for gogra, exactly what India wanted. Deal with it.

plawolf said:

I can see it now, when there are more Indian fatalities from their own unwise advances, the Jai Hind’s new party line is to not only deny that they died, but also claim they were never born to start with.

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Nobody here is denying that India suffered more casualties. Are you denying that China withdrew from standoff areas?

Xsizor said:

Repeating "Status quo restored" won't make it a reality. Status quo had patrols too.
India's retreat from Galwan post is the win China secured in this stand-off.

No. The DSDBO road hasn't been secured, yet. Not with Depsang in China's hand.


First phase disengagement doesn't mean Status quo restoration. You have a weird view of what " Strategic Goals" mean.
China's startegic goal isn't to reach 19XX claim lines. It is to protect its territory and borders.

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The denial you are showing is both ridiculous and hilarious at the same time. I have repeatedly shown that India did not retreat from any post in Galwan. PP 14 was a patrolling point, and never had any Indian camps until China moved in. At least until winter, Indian soldiers were patrolling up to pp14 while PLa had retreated over a kilometer away.

Not only that, but according to Australian satellite analyst Nathan Ruser, India secured the heights surrounding Galwan, meaning that DSDBO is secure.




And please do some actual research and don't just read headlines. The Y junction is on the Chinese side of the LAC, even if it falls within Indian claim lines. Both sides claim about 20 km past the lac. PLA troops have been blocking Indian troops from reaching the Indian claim line, and similarly Indian soldeirs from Burtse block PLA from reaching its claims. Depsang is flat plains spreading through both sides of the lac. IF PLA cannot even get past burtse, there is no threat to DSDBO. That is why it hasn't even been discussed in the same talks as Pangong and Galwan. And if PLA could cut off DSDBO, it would have already done so if its goal was to secure CPEC.


Throughout this entire thread, you have not provided any evidence to support your claims. Just videos and articles from discredited "millitary analysts" and hilariously enough, Indian media claims which you claim to be fake. Whereas I have provided undeniable evidence from third-party sources. Which is why despite all this time, you still have not been able to disprove my arguements.

But do whatever helps you cope with the fact that china retreated from Chinese territory.

Xsizor said:

Repeating "Status quo restored" won't make it a reality. Status quo had patrols too.
India's retreat from Galwan post is the win China secured in this stand-off.

No. The DSDBO road hasn't been secured, yet. Not with Depsang in China's hand.


First phase disengagement doesn't mean Status quo restoration. You have a weird view of what " Strategic Goals" mean.
China's startegic goal isn't to reach 19XX claim lines. It is to protect its territory and borders.

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But since China is now going by the 1959 claim line instead of the de facto LAC of the 1993 agreeement, that means China failed to secure its territory, since India is still occupying Galwan and fingers 2-3

twineedle said:

When did you provide evidence for India patrolling up to finger 8? Please provide any credible evidence and not claims. Nobody here has been able to do that.

And yes status quo ante has been restored in all areas except for gogra, exactly what India wanted. Deal with it.

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The entire stretch along the LAC has witnessed “worrisome hardening of Chinese positions” since April-May, with China occupying a considerable area from Finger 4 to 8 near Pangong Tso. The distance between Finger 4-8, the mountainous spurs abutting the lake, is around 8 km. This was till now patrolled both by India and China as India’s perception of LAC ends at Finger 8.

“The areas currently blocked by the Chinese have always been patrolled by the Indian troops. In all the meetings so far, we have demanded the restoration of status quo ante before April,” said the second official.

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India has traditionally claimed rights to patrol all eight spurs (referred to as fingers) in the disputed region and believes that the Line of Actual Control or LAC here rests at Finger 8. China, for its part, believes that the LAC lies at Finger 4 beyond which the territory belongs to them. In May this year, several Indian soldiers were injured in violent clashes here after Chinese forces prevented Indian soldiers from moving in the direction of Finger 8.

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The Indian Army took control of key heights overlooking the PLA’s deployments on the Finger 4 ridgeline in the first week of September, shortly after it moved and occupied strategic heights on the southern bank to prevent the PLA from grabbing Indian territory, in a stealthy midnight move on August 29.
Before the PLA grabbed positions on Finger 4, the army would patrol right up to Finger 8 that New Delhi considers within Indian territory. Fingers 4 and 8 are eight kilometre apart. The Indian claim line in this sector extends to Finger 8, while the Chinese claim is up to Finger 4.

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Clarifying about the Finger 4, the source said, “On the northern Bank of Pangong Tso, we have been patrolling till Finger 8 and the PLA troops have been coming to Finger 4, but nobody tried to occupy the areas there. We had been patrolling to all the five posts, which Chinese have now obstructed.” Depsang is the most important point and India must dig in to force the Chinese troops to move back, said the source.

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I am not sure if this can be considered evidence in your eyes... but at least 4 of your major media outlets seems to agree that the Indian Army patrolled or claim the right to patrol up to finger 8... if it can be considered evidence then the current situation in Pangong Tso is not status quo ante... and by extension the entire situation, regardless of whether the PLA have returned to their original positions or not, cannot be considered status quo ante by definition as facts on the ground have now changed (no more patrols between F4-8) no matter how small... it maybe a technicality but you are factually incorrect in this argument...

Otherwise, if this cannot be considered evidence then your news media is spewing BS about the situation and thus any articles from these news media outlets cannot be trusted...

As for the other positions or situations I don’t really care and can’t be bothered digging for information but the articles seems to suggest that other prior patrols routes have been blocked as well... if that is the case then that is also a change in the facts on the ground and thus not status quo ante no matter how close...

Now please choose and admit whether status quo ante is in fact not the case or your news media are BS mills that spews unsubstantiated BS

jfy1155 said:

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If they are upset then they are welcome for round two. Choose their weapon of choice too.