Ladakh Flash Point

It's guaranteed that India has video documentation of the event as well. All India has to do is to release their footage to elucidate the events on that day. Call it a hunch but I feel that India won't release jack. Take from that what you will.

twineedle said:

So you are admitting that both sides cross the LAC

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Don't try to twist my words you weasel. pp14 is within chinese LAC, the river bend is literally an easy way to dissect and discern the territory between china and india. India itself know this, otherwise they won't spend such an effort to bring footbridges and soldiers with borrowed riot gears from its own police in May to try to transgress and stir the crisis. India of course do try to take advantage of china's pandemic effort, or else why would you try this stupid stuffs in the beginning?

This is also the second time you choose to ignore and can't refute the satellite evidence that you yourself brought in the first place, further proving that the chinese narrative is closer to the truth if not the truth already, given the mounting evidence.

twineedle said:

either China captured Indian territory or India violated the LAC.

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Of course it can happen simultaneously??? Ever heard of cause and effect? The latter happened first, which is a provocation. AFTER you lost the battle with china, either actual battle (15 June) or logistical battle (other areas), then the former happened. Who's responsible for it? Of course the side who caused the FIRST violation, which is you, indians. Simple enough? I'm writing with very short sentences here, sometimes explaining to your kind is like explaining stuffs to children, you have to repeatedly say the same old things and very slowly. Very inefficient.

twineedle said:

So without evidence, you are claiming India is hiding deaths. I have neer disputed China;s claims, yet it is ok to spread conspiracy theories about Indian casualties? THe double standards are clear. The Indian army is accountabel to the government and people of India, and they never hide their casualties. If Indian army was to hide casualties, why wouldn't it just say that 3 or four soldiers died? The fact that India rleased the names and ranks of all soldiers killed in less than 24 hours shows how transparent India is. Doesn;t matter what unnamed and unreliable "PLA sources" say. If you really are so confident, please provide evidence of your claims, like I have been doing and not conspiracy theories. Oh wait, you have none.

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Without evidence the microbe brained Jai Hindis claimed China lost 100+ PLA soldiers. They were wrong and they were making shit up. Proven and India can prove otherwise anytime. The Indian gov doesn't even want to claim otherwise because they know.

Without evidence the microbe brained Jai Hindis claimed Taiwan shot down a Su-35. They were picking residual shit from their orange panties.

Without evidence the microbe brained Jai Hindis claimed TV documentary footage showing a 1950s graveyard (albeit still used e.g. these actual PLA deaths from Indian attack) was evidence of China showing the 100+ PLA deaths BUT the Jai Hindis also want to claim China is hiding them... hmmmmmm. Can't have both idiots. Clearly at least one was wrong. Turns out they got both in classic Indian fashion. Don't worry that's 99.999999% success because finger slipped.

I can go on but let's deal with your post.

I am NOT claiming India is hiding deaths. I am saying that India admitted that IA suffered "more than 20" deaths in the June fight (not counting the Tibetan exile army guy that was crushed by the BMP and the guys killed by Indian mines while laying them).

Indian media first reported 20+ IA deaths after going from 4 or 5 to 10 and so on. This total figure was eventually only reported as 20 after a period of time I guess 20+ could mean 21 or 100 but eventually all that was talked about was 20. No one counted the funeral processions etc which is fair since that's a complicated task. These aren't double standards at all, read my posts clearly and there is nothing there which is spreading conspiracy.

On topic of accountability? That's hilarious. Indian government running like a headless chicken and stoking the flames is anything but accountable and sensible. The Chinese government as much as they are stereotyped was actually sensible for keeping details released to a minimum in an effort to not exacerbate the situation which was exactly what happened in India.

Recall the Jai Hindis begging for the rape of Chinese girls?? How about banning Chinese from their hotels? Or burning Chinese flags and stabbing effigies of Xi Jiping. You can not like China and hate the leader whatever but this behaviour is more than reflective of the intelligence, maturity, and class of the Jai Hind. It's also reflective of how poorly a government can handle a hazardous situation.

China released factual information even DURING THE CONFLICT. Let's count just a few of them again.

IA intrusion into Reqin and China proper - true as evidenced by stupid IA celebrating a null "victory" and then quickly abandoning. I suppose the IA withdrawal and disengagement on that front was unilateral because they know they'll create a new confrontation front if they stayed.

Casualties suffered by both sides during the June 15 fight. No details provided then for two reasons, several of the 5 PLA soldiers died days/weeks later after succumbing to their injuries. Notice how the PLA commander (same guy in many photos/videos) shown by Chinese media had surgery marks. Makes sense some of the PLA unfortunately did not make a recovery from possibly more serious injuries than the commander suffered. The second reason? Imagine if they formally reported 5 PLA losses after those soldiers succumbed while India lost more than 20, had countless captured, lost a few more from laying Indian mines and unloading BMP vehicles.

Indians were infact armed, something Indian media and government denied but photos prove they have their sticks and some were even carrying rifles. Of course after Sep/Oct they were given the green light to shoot by the Indian gov.

India is NOT transparent. You losers need to stop propagating an obviously false narrative. Being transparent immediately about the number of losses is not indicative of operations. If Indian gov was transparent tell me why they perform more internet blackouts than the rest of the world combined? Yeah okay China's is heavily monitored and censored but you're not better. If anything you are pretending to be better while being worse. Why the censorship of Muslims and student protestors? Why the communication blackouts enforced in New Delhi whenever instability comes around? Why blackout Kashmir??

So much for responsible and transparent. Again the IA and gov reporting the 20+ losses and admitting to dozens being captured is NOT done out of being angelic decent people but for building the eventual damage control. Maybe the Indians thought the Chinese would report on the IA losses but never anticipated the CCP to be sensible enough to limit information to "casualties suffered on both sides in fighting at Ladakh".

Tim Shong said:

Ahem, they are called Xi Bucks my man. Also it is spelled uyghur not ugyer, your disrespecting them by spelling it wrong and next please give me hard evidence that the uyghurs are actually being genocided instead of bs reports by Adrian Zenz.

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various sources available along with interviews all over YouTube.

How many Xi bucks for PLA for retreating now from Ladhakh?

ougoah said:

Your Jai Hind colonel Dunny isn't an authority on this issue surely you understand this right??

lol

He's saying this now but for years we all know that IA and PLA have held up banners asking the other's patrol party to return when they have approached beyond their respective claim lines. This should indicate that IA patrols FREQUENTLY walked up well beyond finger 4. Enough times to warrant banners from being produced and issued lol. The same goes for PLA.

For every Dunny that claims x,y,z after the disengagement to portray a facesaving situation for India, there were MANY Indians and opposition leaders/ military ones who implied that IA patrolled up to finger 8 and lamenting the fact that PLA settling onto finger 4, prevented IA from performing patrols they always did in the past.

Patrolling up to claimed borders was quite common and the buffer zone was only established in earnest after these actual disengagement agreements/action. The buffer zone did not exist in the past. If it did, how do you figure there were so many clashes and pushing fights even before 2020?

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All of those viral videos occured around the foxhole point of finger 4. That is because finger 4 has only one opening for tropps to pass through, which is easily blocked from either side. And I believe Col. Dinny does have far more authority on this issue than most Indians, since he actually served on Pangong Tso and knows how Indian troops operate. The fact is China was forced to retreat beyond finger 8 and dismantle infrastructure, which it had built with the clear purpose of forcibly annexing it, so China disengaging and respecting Indian claim lines is clearly what India wanted. The fact is the current situation at Pangong Tso, Galwan, and Hot Springs is exactly how the status quo was prior to Feb of 2020, and there is satellite imagery to prove that. No amount of ranting can change that.

twineedle said:

Please provide evidence of Indian army every building any structure or camp between fingers 4 or 8. Just about every Indian defence analyst said that India had never built infrastructure there, and the only ones who claimed Indian patrols there were a regular occurence are anti-BJP/Modi like Ajai Shukla, etc. Soldiers on the ground who have served there, unlike keyboard warriors here have said that very rarely, if every, Indian troops never patrolled past 3-4. Sure India claims up to finger 8, but it has no good way of enforcing them. That is why India has been pushing for the restoration of a buffer zone for this past year. Ironically you are shifting the goalposts by changing the topic from the disengagement deal to conspiracy theories about Indian casualties to false claims about Indian patrols.

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Read better!

I never said Indians built a thing between fingers 4 and 8. R.E.A.D!

I said they patrolled up to finger 8. Give me evidence they never did this. I already addressed the patrolling point in a previous reply. The Indians themselves have talked about losing the ability to patrol to finger 8 after PLA took finger 4. This is not exactly great evidence but come on. The confrontations in the past and the banners combined with this say plenty enough more than "Anonymous" IA sources claiming they rarely walked beyond finger 4. Show me proof IA rarely patrolled up to finger 8.

In your own stupid words you're saying they RARELY patrolled up to finger 8. Which means they did right?

Seriously I can't believe the Jai Hinds in the other forums are criticising this forum. The quality and intelligence here is at the very least above cow piss narratives and calling chinks this and that.

twineedle said:

Lol some memebers are still believing claims China captured 1000 sq km, while also trying to say India instigated the conflict. some real cognitive dissonance. I guess they are still trying to cope with the fact China retreated from so much territory.

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Indian apparently can't understand simple cause and effect scenario, with simple one continuous line where both things can happen if it doesn't happen at the same time/same place. WOW what a difficult concept to compherend..

Let me just add this.

PLA, or the whole people of China, need to change mindset.

Repeat after me, CHANGE MINDSET.

You really need to get out of the mentality of two-centrary humiliation, the mentality of victimhood. You are recognized by all but a few, a full-fledged superpower, and that includes, developed European countries. You can stand a full scale trade war against America, victorious. If you can't take care of yourself and defend your interests, nobody can.

You need to defend your honor. because there are countries across this world look up to you, expect you to stand up to the bully.

You need to ditch the loser mentality wherever your interests are in. You need to have the mindset of the "stronger". Han dynasty and Tang dynasty had this mindset. Song just doesn't. Ming, yes in the first half.

Mao restored this mindset with Korean War. Deng significantly weakened it with his economic "reform", where everything is counted by the money. To this day, you are still felling into this trap and couldn't get out of it, thus not able to think properly. Your body has grown into an adult, but your mind and behavior is still teenager.

There is a benefit of claiming "developing" status, but that benefit is deminishing quickly. I expect that to change soon.

So, stop burying inside great firewall and middle kingdom, thinking everything is gonna be ok.

You claim soft power doesn't exist and China's image doesn't matter. Yet at the same time you fight for the perception of win or lose. This doesn't make any sense.

You are a full fledged economic and military superpower, but your soft power are soringly lagging behind. And you tell me you don't care?

Take a look at the status of overseas Chinese. Social-econimocally, they are doing relatively well. But politically, they are at the bottom of the ladder, where every other race can take advantage of. Even politicians of your own race don't fight for you. Because they, just as you, have same loser, weaker mentality. I got to ask, is everything just about money?

Now, 5 eyes are pushing the Xinjiang narrative. And what your government has been doing? They behave like "this is none of your business". You have to do better than that.

As a superpower, you need to have the capability to control the narrative . And you are not even trying.

A duly elected government can be toppled by just a narrative. That's soft power. That's how mighty soviet union fell. They lost the narrative.

lgnxz said:

Don't try to twist my words you weasel. pp14 is within chinese LAC, the river bend is literally an easy way to dissect and discern the territory between china and india. India itself know this, otherwise they won't spend such an effort to bring footbridges and soldiers with borrowed riot gears from its own police in May to try to transgress and stir the crisis. India of course do try to take advantage of china's pandemic effort, or else why would you try this stupid stuffs in the beginning?

This is also the second time you choose to ignore and can't refute the satellite evidence that you yourself brought in the first place, further proving that the chinese narrative is closer to the truth if not the truth already, given the mounting evidence.

Of course it can happen simultaneously??? Ever heard of cause and effect? The latter happened first, which is a provocation. AFTER you lost the battle with china, either actual battle (15 June) or logistical battle (other areas), then the former happened. Who's responsible for it? Of course the side who caused the FIRST violation, which is you, indians. Simple enough? I'm writing with very short sentences here, sometimes explaining to your kind is like explaining stuffs to children, you have to repeatedly say the same old things and very slowly. Very inefficient.

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It is impossible to capture territory and retreat at teh same time, and satellite images have shown that PLA has retreated 60 km at Pangong and 1 km from pp14, meaning China was forced to recognize Indian claims. Meanwhile, India has a camp less than half a km from pp14 and still conducts patrolling ops there, and even completed the bridge near the mouth. BTW, according to the new 1959 claim line, the LAC is at the Galwan mouty, NOT the bend/pp14. So according to Chinese claims, it is India that captured Chinese territory, not vice versa. Than again, some members here actually think destroying everything you built and retreating 60 km counts as a victory.

twineedle said:

I have no idea where requin is, but Indian troops were occupying Rechin La(which lies on the Indian side of the 1992 lac) until last week when China disengaged from the north bank. Why do you think China agreed to the disengagement in the first place? Then again, satellite imagery provided by neutral sources like Maxar is doctored lol.

I do agree that India had never taken black top and helmet though, that was bad reporting by some Indian media sources.

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Well that explains why you have troubles. Reqin = Rechin La? No? That's not obvious enough to a person with even a substandard Jai Hind intelligence?

Anyway.

You idiots DID share doctored satellite footage in the past! Just like you shared 2011 documentary pics of graveyards and you shared a Mig-21 picture as if it was an F-16. Got it? It's not me claiming, these are pretty much facts but Jai Hind denial is stronger than any other kind. I suppose only this sort of mindset allows a Jai Hind to believe in the wild pantheon of ridiculousness that is Hindu exceptionalism/extremism.

I wrote pages worth of what I consider, well reasoned out conjecture on why I personally think China agreed to disengagement. They are on this thread but only right after the disengagement news. I don't want to repeat them because there is a lot. We can do it another way. Why do you think China agreed to disengagement?

"I do agree that India had never taken black top and helmet though, that was bad reporting by some Indian media sources."
Yes and this is one out of many, many false claims and fake news from India. Notice not a single "bad reporting" was done and propagated by China? Jeeeeeeeee.