Ladakh Flash Point

siegecrossbow said:

Nonetheless it is disheartening to see the Chinese map and word China erased from the fingers. The soldiers already suffered through half of the winter but now they have to go back...

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I honestly don’t see what the fuss is all about.

Yes, PLA positions at Ladakh can essentially be maintained indefinitely. But India would never accept a Chinese forceful takeover of all disputed territory, so China needs to keep troops at the board at all times to maintain its gains. Doing so is hardly going to be cost free for China, nor is it a desirable long term solution.

Also, we need to remember that Ladakh is not the only area in dispute between China and India, so even if China locks Ladakh tight, it’s pretty much a given that Indian pride would force them to probe for weaknesses elsewhere to get back at China with. The complex geography of the region means its nearly impossible to effectively police the boarder against active probing by the other side without tying up unreasonable force levels.

If China can make some meaningless pullbacks of troop positions (there is zero change on China’s territorial claims) to avoid needed to keep huge forces forward deployed on the Indian boarder, then that’s a desirable outcome for China.

Paradoxically, I think it is precisely because Beijing now fully expect an Indian military backstab as soon as it is actively militarily engaged elsewhere that this pullback and drawdown of troops from the frontline is most urgently needed.

China will never fire the first shot in any war with India, that means having massive troops forward deployed merely presents India with more targets for their backstabbing alpha strike.

By reaching an agreement and drawing down frontline forces, China takes away all of the targets worthwhile for an Indian alpha strike, while also removing any cover that continued standoff might offer them for their inevitable backstab.

If something happens in the east or south and India wants to pile in on China, they will find little of value within range of their alpha strike, thereby effectively nullifying the initiative they would have had from being the ones to initiate open conflict.

Mohsin77 said:

Indian news has been claiming that since July 2020.

I guess your "week" is measured in Indian Standard Time i.e. actual time + forever

That also explains the timelines of HAL's LCA...

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Hot Springs was already cleared in July, along with Galwan. Gogra is the only area left.

Also, looks like we have some recent satellite imagery. Things could change, but as of now it looks like both sides were telling the truth.

Geographical importance of Depsang Plains
To the north of Depsang is the over 18,000 feet Karakoram Pass. To its right is the Chinese-annexed Aksai Chin, across which runs the G219 highway that connects Tibet and Xinjiang provinces. The Lingzi Thang mountain range divides the Depsang Plains from Aksai Chin.

China has, since 1962, a hold on the mountain spurs on the eastern edge of Depsang.

The western edge of Depsang abuts the southeast part of the Rimo glacier, which is an extension of the Siachen glacier.

The official history of the 1962 war recognises the Chip Chap river valley, which opens into the Depsang Plains, as one offensive route from Aksai Chin into Ladakh.

Sources said Murgo, located on the southern edge of Depsang, now has a route to Sasoma in eastern Ladakh but is a combination of a jeep track and a foot trail.

This path goes across the Saser La pass at about 17,000 ft. From Sasoma, there is a road into Gilgit Baltistan through Turtuk and Tyakashi (both on the Indian side).

“If this (Saser La) pass is captured by the enemy, then they can threaten the route to Siachen,” a source said.

He added that any threat to Depsang can mean the Darbuk-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldie (DS-DBO) road can be threatened.

The 255-km long road connects Leh to the Karakoram Pass. While the DBO, which has the world’s highest air strip, comes within the Depsang Plains, the military considers it separate.

“If the enemy cuts off the DBO, it makes India’s control over Karakoram pass untenable,” he said.

According to former Northern Army commander Lt Gen D.S. Hooda (retd), India has built up good defence in the area.

“The SSN, including the Depsang area, is strategically important. The DS-DBO road runs through this area that is near the Karakoram pass. India has built up good defences in this area,” Hooda said.

In his article in ThePrint, military historian Air Vice Marshal Arjun Subramaniam (retd) noted that the control of the Siachen glacier for India is critical considering that to the east of the glacier lies the SSN.

“This is the area that saw much action in the 1962 India-China War and includes the Indian Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) of Daulat Beg Oldie, and contested areas of the Depsang Plains that have seen numerous face-offs in the recent past between Indian and Chinese border patrols,” Subramaniam wrote in April this year.

“Strategically, should Pakistan have taken control of the Siachen Glacier, SSN would have been sandwiched between Pakistani and Chinese forces, a fact that was well appreciated by the Indian Army leadership,” he added.

The official history of the 1962 War also identifies Depsang Plains and the DBO as possible launchpads against the Aksai Chin highway.

O7

Kakyan said:

You were saying same thing about Pangong but this week gave you all eggs on your faces

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... I don't know what you're referring to, but details like who is sitting on what particular hill are meaningless to me.

What matters is the overall posture and capabilities in the AO, and that picture hasn't really changed at all.

The PLA's core infrastructure build up in this theater is unaffected by these little gestures which you're celebrating.

ougoah said:

No one is saying this is a complete Chinese victory. If anything it's a Chinese loss since China agreed to move out of the land it still claims (disputed) even though PLA moved in against the approval of India. None of us know why China agreed to a disengagement since pla sitting there for a year proved the positions were in fact tenable.

Bilateral disengagement could be what china wanted since the beginning because this now means India is not able to patrol in areas they used to but it may mean the same for China. The details of which are totally left out by both sides. Since China negotiated with a superior position I think undeniable, it only makes sense they got some bargain since I doubt the CCP is kind enough to let go of such an advantage even if it's done, it would be done out of some political or economic benefit, of which none are apparent.

The details do matter. Modi needs some pressure release. CCP may give him a bone with nice sounding disengagements but it could mean formal withdrawal from India and a pretend withdrawal from China. In a few months to years time it could be PLA patrolling up to finger 3 with India sitting behind it. Eroding the line using similar salami slicing both sides have used for decades.

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No it is not. China only slightly pulled back in Pangon Tsao but not in other area such as Galawan valley, Desprang which are what matters.

BTW, indian detected.

manqiangrexue said:

Indians are the only people who can lose a jet in combat, then shoot down their own helicopter in response, then get 20 soldiers killed running away in the cold with over 60 POWs returned, suffer drownings and heightened cold-induced injuries (even with those fancy expensive American coats LOL), lose hundreds of km^2 of land by their own account, and then go "Booyaa! We got an agreement to end and pull back! Eggs on YOUR face!!" LOLOL If China performed this poorly, half the people would engulf the government in riots and the other half would be too ashamed to come outside but Indians are proud of it.

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Look at how india perform in the PISA test. The test that measures national intellect of their students and corrleatd to IQ.







india in the sewer while China shines in glory. ( indian IQ 75, Average Chinese IQ 105)

Now you know why so many indian trolls on the internet and india can not do anything right while China is becoming the Hyper Power?

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Then india decided to quit the test all together from 2012 until now.

Which soviet leader does this remind you off ?

", , and are all travelling together in a railway carriage. Unexpectedly, the train stops. Lenin suggests: "Perhaps we should announce a , so that workers and peasants will fix the problem." Stalin puts his head out of the window and shouts, "If the train does not start moving, the driver will be shot!" (an allusion to the ). But the train doesn't start moving. Khrushchev then shouts, "Let's take the rails from behind the train and use them to lay the tracks in front" (an allusion to Khrushchev's various reorganizations). But still the train doesn't move. Then Brezhnev says, "Comrades, Comrades, let's draw the curtains, turn on the gramophone and pretend we're moving!"

JSL said:

Look at how india perform in the PISA test. The test that measures national intellect of their students and corrleatd to IQ.

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Consider refraining from putting up posts of such nature, which, besides being out of topic, promotes racist views.

I object strongly to these kind of posts. It's one of the few steps that ought to be taken to make sure that SDF remains better than the forums of other militaries (Indian especially) that is rife with racist / racism promoting posts. Can't stoop as low as others.