Ladakh Flash Point

Kakyan said:

Yes third party maps from US or EU are far more reliable as they are neutral and not a party to this dispute which makes Indian claims non neutral.

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Nope. Neither EU nor US are neutral when it comes to China. That is absurd. China is a global power and strategic competitor to US and EU.

Kakyan said:

He has no credibility. He is same person who falsely labeled a Pak Babur missile launch as CGI.

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So, can we discount his posts from now on regarding any and all things important to China - India interaction.
I'll make a note of it, as he has previously given open source study of Chinese Naval buildup, missile force deployments and border developments.

Kakyan said:

Not really as those 1000 sqm in depsang were necer accessed by India for atleast 30 to 40 years as staed by a Ladakh corps commander himself and all neutral maps from NASA or EU or NOAA showd that 1000 sq km area (Depsang Plains) to be on Chinese side of LAC

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Well if India recognises these are Chinese land and has been for at least the last 30 to 40 years, then that's umm pretty good... for China.

Pangong lake north side China claims to finger 3 iirc not finger 4. India claims to finger 8. Both sides patrolled up to their interpretation of border with spillover.

Now the disengagement at the north side suggests IA will go back behind finger 3 and not step into the F3 to F8 stretch while PLA go back behind finger 8 and not step into that buffer stretch. So basically the net end result is exactly the same claim lines (at pangong lake only) but no more stepping into the disputed (now buffer) stretch.

Since the positions now occupied by PLA in Galwan valley, hot springs etc are raised by India's MoD like you have even said yourself. How is it possible that India always recognised where PLA is sitting up there as Chinese territory? The Indian MoD is negotiating for disengagement there as well but if they think it's Chinese land, what's to negotiate??

The fact is the IA built up more infrastructure in those parts before the clash. Pangong gets a lot of attention because it's easier to visually understand the positions. Now the Indian constructions discussed and photographed thousands of pages before, have been shown to have become demolished. It's entirely possible there will be disengagement up north as well. It's not recognised as Chinese land by India at all. If it were, they won't be negotiating for it and publicly declaring so.

Kakyan said:

Yes third party maps from US or EU are far more reliable as they are neutral and not a party to this dispute which makes Indian claims non neutral.

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Then by your own logic, you should trust the Bloomberg/FP articles that India has lost 600+ square miles. Or does it not work that way? Only third party maps that you like, not the third party news that you don't like? LOL

ougoah said:

Except the Indian seizing of southern parts were pretty quickly reversed. Indians always held Chushul. They didn't manage to hold onto Reqin. Black top and Hlemet top were both bilaterally recognised as Chinese iirc and PLA does hold those tops while Indians have camps right next to PLA.

The Indians basically had camps withing throwing range of PLA forward positions from Galwan valley down to Black Top.

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It's not really about how close a position is. What's more important is how exposed it is. The Indians always had the southern bank overlooking F4 from the flank. That's what raises the question on whether this was a diversionary or expendable tactical move by the PLA from the start.

The biggest loss is for the ports located between Fingers 4 and 8. Those will have to be decommissioned for the time being. However, since the lake is frozen, neither side can actually use them for patrol till March at the earliest.

Nobonita Barua said:

Or neutral US , country with super intelligence gathering capacity that though Kim Jong Un was dead & China includes entire asia

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US govt never claimed it. It was just private media.

Xsizor said:

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The official revealed that in

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, from patrolling point 10-13, the scale of Chinese control of India’s perception of the LAC stood at about 900 sq.km.

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India did not even send a single soldier or civilian to those areas in 15 yrs as that area was considered inaccessble from Indian side for over 15 years. So it has absolutely nothing to with Modi rule which started in 2014 let alone with 2020 standoff.

Kakyan said:

Already blew this 1000 sq km claim out of water, as per official US govt LAC in Depsang anything east of the famous Y junction of depsang is on Chinese side. Same in Google earth too as well as Apple Maps. None of them have changed LAC Orientation in their maps in atleast 10 years

But even then, India keeps saying LAC in Depsang is 17 km east of Y junction just to maximalize it claims and gullible Pakistanis and Chinese on internet keep believing it just so they can say India lost 1000 sq km.

Here is NASA map which shows LAC is at Y junction and not 17 km east of Y junction as Indian media claims.

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i don't know why Depsang is being discussed here. The reason why Depsang was not initially brought up by the MOD was becasue it was not part of this standoff. The situation there has been the same since 2013. This is the best depiction of the current situation there

even Indian media report the nearest Chinese camp is 20-30 km from DBO,, which is 10 km west of the LAC. so the 1000 km claim doesn't hold up. The MOD will probably request to hold talks on Depsang as a separate issue though.

ougoah said:

Since the positions now occupied by PLA in Galwan valley, hot springs etc are raised by India's MoD like you have even said yourself. How is it possible that India always recognised where PLA is sitting up there as Chinese territory? The Indian MoD is negotiating for disengagement there as well but if they think it's Chinese land, what's to negotiate??

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Galwan has been cleared since July 2020 by both sides.
India will next move for disengagement in hot springs and gogra.

Depsnag is considered a lost case as it 15 years old and there was no new intrusion there in 2020.
Instead both sides will move offensive forces on their sides.

manqiangrexue said:

Then by your own logic, you should trust the Bloomberg/FP articles that India has lost 600+ square miles. Or does it not work that way? Only third party maps that you like, not the third party news that you don't like? LOL

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Those are private media not US govt and they were authored by Indian nationals or were quoting Indian sources

Mohsin77 said:

There are 3 other features: Galwan, Gogra and Hot Springs, all of which are a win for the PLA

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Galwan has been cleared by both sides since July 2020. A simple sat pics can attest that no Chinese troops remain on Indian claim side of LAC and no Indian troops on Chinese claim side of LAC.

Gogra is not an intrusion but Chinese deploying offensive units close to Indian posns.

Both Gogra and Hot spring will be cleared in a week after Panging