Ladakh Flash Point

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Tsin Phan

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Best way for peace is that India must return occupied Chinese areas to China and occupied Pakistani areas (Kashmir) to
Pakistan...
Do you all think that there will be a war by India against China/Pakistan ?
I do not think so. Reason is that Indian economy and Indian morale is seriously down .
 

NiuBiDaRen

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So The Economist discussed the best cuisine. The explanations for American and British completely don't make sense. But I'm glad they didn't include India - Indian cuisine isn't worth mentioning.


CHINESE by Fuchsia Dunlop
There’s only one emperor among cuisines: the others are all pretenders. Chinese cuisine is peerless in its range of ingredients and cooking methods, the diversity of its regional flavours and sophistication of its gastronomic culture. It has something to offer every palate and predilection. Partial to French haute cuisine? Try a banquet in Hangzhou, whose food markets dazzled Marco Polo. Keener on pasta? Look no further than the astonishing noodle arts of Shanxi province. The thrilling spiciness of Indian or Thai? Head for Sichuan, where “a hundred dishes have a hundred different flavours”. Aside from its multifarious regional cooking styles, China has Buddhist vegetarian, Muslim and medicinal culinary traditions—not to mention the cuisines of its 55 ethnic minorities.

Many of today’s food crazes have their antecedents in China, including the physical transformations of molecular gastronomy, the esoteric ferments of New Nordic cooking, and the playful wit of Heston Blumenthal. The Chinese make noodles out of fish, ferment overgrown vegetable stalks into relishes and conjure vegetarian banquets resembling meat. They create delicacies out of odds and ends like chicken gizzards and pomelo peel. Outsiders scorn the Chinese for “eating everything”, as if their adventurousness stemmed from desperation. Actually, it comes from passion, discrimination and curiosity that finds pleasure almost everywhere—in particular, in the realm of texture, largely neglected in the Western world.

The Man-Han imperial banquet, a three-day extravaganza featuring whole suckling pigs and bear’s paws, supposedly represents the pinnacle of the Chinese culinary arts. But Chinese cuisine isn’t just for the rich; the love of good food runs like a vein through society, untroubled by the hang-ups about physical pleasure bequeathed to Europeans by medieval saints. China’s street food is just as amazing as its banquets.

And it’s good for you. No other culture lays such an emphasis on the intimate relationship between food and health. The everyday Chinese diet is based on grains and vegetables, with modest amounts of meat and fish, and very little sugar—a model for healthy and sustainable eating. A good Chinese meal is all about balance: even a lavish banquet should leave you feeling shufu—comfortable and well.

--------------------------

I was flying on Japan Airlines, and the inflight menu said they covered the Four Heavenly Cuisines - Chinese, Japanese, Italian, French. But in my opinion only Chinese and Japanese are Heavenly while French and Italian are sub-Heavenly.
 

jimmyjames30x30

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India oh India! LOL... You just gotta give it to India. It was able to pull off the con of the century!

For those who accuse China of being a land of scammers and thieves for 5000 years. (Yeah Marsha Blackburn, I'm looking at you!) Well folks, you ain't seen nothing yet! You have the one and only: India!

Well Indian call-center scammers are infamous alright. But then there is a scam so much worse in magnitude. India had pulled the world, into its con of the century by making everyone think its gonna be the next big thing. India had the luck of having a population size similar to China, and some bright people (in the past) to put up a convincing act. India's big fake news network in Western media and institutions did a great job too. But its all a big con actually. Here is the list of the biggest cons India had managed to pull off:

1) India had conned Russia and China into believing that it would be a trustworthy partner in the alternative bloc that they are building. Russia transferred much technology to India. And endorsed India's ascendancy into a number of multilateral institutions like the UNSC, BRICS, SCO, etc. China for its part was conned into investing huge sums of money into India's economy via FDI and other ventures. China trusted India to be getting friendlier for decades. So much so that their border forces facing India was kept at minimal strength until 2017. And there was practically little to no anti-Indian fervor in China before Modi came.

Now its flipped on its head. India is part of team QUAD now, with Uncle Sam, Japan, and Australia. Russia's biggest enemies in the world and in the East. India is putting wartime level military strength on the Indo-China border. India supports Tibetan, HK, Xinjiang, and Taiwanese separatism directly and indirectly. So much for being a trustworthy partner. China and Russia had to learn the hard way, of the good old Indian backstab.

No, I don't agree one bit. To be blunt, your analysis is naive and superficial.

1. Your first point is nothing but propaganda mindset. Any mindset that treats nations like individual persons are propaganda for the masses. Nations don't act that way. The so-called "thrust-worthiness", "dependability", etc are NEVER real metrics upon which nations/governments assess and carry out their foreign policy, or geostrategy. They are nothing but populist propaganda for the media, to fool people into thinking one way. "Predictability" is the real metric. One government ONLY uses terms like "not trustworthy" when they are out of option in a diplomatic/media battle with another, and have to resort to smearing their opponent in order make themselves look less unsuccessful in dealing with the opponent, in the eyes of domestic/foreign public. Therefore, you first point might look like anti-India, but it was actually trashing on everyone else and praising India.

The reality is the contrary. Russia and China do NOT plan on pulling India into an Eurasian bloc by persuasion and negotiation. Because such things are never accomplished by chit-chatting. The way to do it is to put India in a situation where the pros of entering such bloc overwhelming out-weight the cons (or, the cons of not entering the bloc out-weights the pros). Right now, That is being slowly but steadily being accomplished.
 

jimmyjames30x30

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2) India conned the world that it's a peace-loving world's biggest democracy. The West and sophisticated societies in the East would always imagine India as the land of peace and benevolence. The country of Mahatma Gandhi, Namaste, Gurus, Yoga, and Ayurveda. Good, if only a few inconvenient truths did not exist. Things like: the caste system, anti-Chinese pogroms after the 1962 war, anti-Muslim pogroms from independence till today, brutal occupation of Kashmir, Hindutva, slavery, deliberate perpetuation of poverty, scam call centers, farmer riots, worker riots, gangster politicians, and many more.

2. Your second point is even more naive. Do not assume people/nations are foolish. They are NEVER foolish! They know exactly what's going on. They act like they don't only because it is NOT in their interest to do so. Nations are interest-driven creatures, they are not reason-driving, nor do they profess to be truth-seeking. They west know EXACTLY how India lacks human rights. But in the face of a rising China, it is in their interest to keep the urban legend of the "superiority of democracy" alive. This is NOT for purpose of pandering to India. This is solely for the purpose of keeping their own prestige alive on the world stage.
 
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jimmyjames30x30

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3) India conned the world that it is the next big thing after China. When China was thundering ahead to become the world's second biggest economy. Many of the folks in the 'free world' were perplexed, terrified and angry. This is so wrong! How could a non-Caucasian, one-party Communist state be so successful as to compete with USA no.1? Enter India, the savior, the other country on earth with a population to match China's. But more importantly, its a democratic country; in fact the world's biggest democracy! Yes, this is their hope to counter the rise of China! Politicians, businessmen, journalists, and intellects in the West start to make bold predictions that India would be the next China. Not only that, because its a democracy, it would overtake China and save the 'free world'!

When India heard these wonderful praises, it's Jai Hind ego ballooned to grotesque proportions. India Superpower! India has arrived! As many people in India and the West like to shout aloud. Believing in its own over-inflated hype, India did little to nothing to improve on key economic drivers. Things like infrastructure, education, structural government reform, and social reform. India is already 'perfect'. Its upper and middle class could consider themselves in the same league as Western elites. What about the lower classes and the undesirables? Don't worry, we just don't need to count them in. Corporations from the West, Japan, and South Korea all lined up to get a piece of India's 'gigantic market'. For decades they invested and listened to Indian promises. For sure some have made some decent business. But there are also big failures like GM, Apple iPhones, and Wal-Mart. Nevertheless, successful or not, all of them must be wondering. Why is India still not giving them the same level of riches that China had already given them? Should they be more patient? I say to them: If you want to continue trusting Indian promises, then keep waiting.

India's economic story is not following the script as of 2020. It's perhaps the worse performing major economy in 2020. No BRI, no RCEP, rejection of most of Asia except for Japan and South Korea. What economic future is there for India? The West? Yeah right! And yet many people are still believing in India's promise? Sigh...

4) India sells to the world that its rise would spell the end of China. The most celebrated Indian 'China-killer' is: Make In India. India had the demographic advantage over China isn't it? So it must be 'God's will' that all that manufacturing will move from China to India. Apple certainly believed it. But then it had to endure the infamous worker riots. Is it also 'God's will' that manufacturing in India just hasn't really taken off as India repeatedly promised? If India had achieved at least half of its Make In India promise, we wouldn't be talking so much about Bangladesh, Vietnam, and Indonesia today.

Then the other big con-job: Jio 5G. Touted as India's 'Huawei Killer' to finally give the 'free world' an alternative to Huawei's 5G dominance. Forget Nokia and Ericsson 5G! Reliance's Jio 5G is the 'big one'! So-called using fully indigenous Indian technology but also collaborating with Samsung and Qualcomm. The promise was so great that Google invested $4.4 bil into Jio 5G. Huawei could have been concerned, if only it wasn't another of Mukesh Ambani's con job. That '5G' in the Jio 5G is not true 5G actually. Its actually just an uprated 4G network described in typical confusing Indian fashion, that it makes it sound legit. Kinda like AT&T's 5G. Good luck to Google and others who wanna bet on Jio 5G. Believing in yet another Indian promise. LOL!

India tells the world that it has a 'superior military' to China. Everything from Rafale jets to Jawans is being described as giving India an 'advantage' over China. Well, from the many posts on this thread. Many have already seen how this false picture is being dismantled day after day.

Jai Hind!
Continues....

3. This point is naive, but I will let you get away with it, because it is a little bit tricky. The West KNOWS that India will never be able to approach even one third of China's level. Even Indian elites knows this. However, this is exactly why they will have a peace of mind to prop up India to challenge China. All of today's surviving civilizations are advanced civilizations with a lot of history and advanced school of thoughts. They are anything but short-sighted. If India is on a course to be as powerful as China, the West will NEVER prop up India. Because this method of "solving the China problem" will simply create a more troublesome "India problem" later on. The West (or any other civilizations) ONLY make such mistakes under 2 circumstances:
1. Their entire population are put under a strong momentum for a short-sight populist mindset in which they can't stop.
2. They grossly underestimated the potentials and capabilities of the weaker party.
Therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the west to be fooled and overestimate India, AND help India against China. Those two does NOT logically go together. The West will NOT help India to become another China that will simply challenge them even more in the future.

4. This point is non-sensical and pointless. Again, the West is NOT stupid, nor are they so primitive that they don't have their own metrics and method of assessing such matter. ESPECIALLY when such matter is directly linked with profit. Trust me, when it comes to profit, the West is as shrewd as humanly possible. Companies are NEVER fooled. They do things because they have to do it. They are always on a course of expansion, this does NOT mean that they are fooled by India. They WILL try to open factory in India regardless of what Indian government says. Of course, it is better if the Indian government welcomes them with sweet talks, because this means that the cost of such expansion is less. Your narrative is making a very complex matter incorrectly simple. This will only mislead your readers.
 

Xizor

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If India is on a course to be as powerful as China, the West will NEVER prop up India.

This is true.
And this isn't oblivious to Indian strategic planners.
What they are trying to do is to extract the financial benefits for India under the pretext of confronting China. They are fully aware that they would've been confronted the same way China has been confronted if they get as big and powerful as China.

Even a neutered Japan faced hostility from its "key-ally" during the bubble Era. (Side Note :its sad that very few video documentaries exist of the Bubble Era 1980-1990. Help me with it guys, gals).

But this is a crucial time period for India. It's demographic dividend if not tapped soon enough (By 2030 atleast) then the Dividend will mutate into demographic Burden.

From India's point of view, siding with West is just the simple answer. Ladakh or no Ladakh, India would have sided with West to pluck whatever big or little fruits of Globalist Capitalism it can. It's is not a question of it must. It should. It's future depends on it.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
If India is on a course to be as powerful as China, the West will NEVER prop up India.

This is true.
And this isn't oblivious to Indian strategic planners.
What they are trying to do is to extract the financial benefits for India under the pretext of confronting China. They are fully aware that they would've been confronted the same way China has been confronted if they get as big and powerful as China.

Even a neutered Japan faced hostility from its "key-ally" during the bubble Era. (Side Note :its sad that very few video documentaries exist of the Bubble Era 1980-1990. Help me with it guys, gals).

But this is a crucial time period for India. It's demographic dividend if not tapped soon enough (By 2030 atleast) then the Dividend will mutate into demographic Burden.

From India's point of view, siding with West is just the simple answer. Ladakh or no Ladakh, India would have sided with West to pluck whatever big or little fruits of Globalist Capitalism it can. It's is not a question of it must. It should. It's future depends on it.
This is NOTHING new. The West and the Anglo-Americans are NOT newbies when it comes to balance of power.
"Splendid Isolation" is a good example. These are not conspiracy theories, these are actual history that everyone in history and political science learns about. It is basic common knowledge to think tanks and academia. It is just uncommon to other common people, because the West (the US) has been pushing what Mike Judge called "idiocracy" under consumerism for too long.
 

NiuBiDaRen

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I did go onto some of the India defense forums and all I saw was lots of racist Fu Manchu memes. For some reason it didn't bother me. I don't see how Indians can do damage to China anyway. But yeah they'll never progress if they don't swallow their pride but continue to use racism to make themselves feel better about themselves.

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I hope India develops Brahmos and forgets about everything else
 
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