I wouldn't thought China is selling any J10C any time soon. Sorry you got your JF17. And I think that's it.
Ladakh Flash Point
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I wouldn't thought China is selling any J10C any time soon. Sorry you got your JF17. And I think that's it.
Why would China not want to sell the J-10C to its closest ally? It's not like it has strategic technologies like the J-20 and especially against the Rafale, Pakistan needs a heavier, more advanced fighter than the JF-17. The J-10C is a perfect substitute.
At this point, the J-10C is not close to cutting edge for China. It could likely be exported, but the price of J-10C is likely a step function up from JF-17. Also, Pakistan would need to create another logistical support chain. Better bet is for China to continue working with Pakistan on JF-17, which lets be honest is becoming a more PAF fighter than anything else.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
No no no, according to @Kakyan these are natural deaths. The two under the wall died from spontaneous somatic compression disorder, which is endemic to Indians of the Jammu locale (Indian geneticists are currently looking into any susceptibility genes) and the other 2 voluntarily went for a leisurely swim but it was so exhilarating, they felt as though they had lived 100 years in just 10 minutes so they died from old age at 21 and 23.
No doubt that JF17 is an excellent aircraft, but when compared to multiple fighters in the Indian's arsenal (eg. Rafale, Su-30MKI and soon to come F-16 latest models), Pakistani would do good to actually own something different and with a bit more punch. Of course Pakistan is an operators for the F-16, but most of which are older version... and now that US is wooing the Indians', I doubt Pakistan is going to receive much of a support from US. Plus since the Indian is also going to be the main maintenance operator for the F-16 soon, I think the Indian will have much information and data of this fighter and therefore, Pakistan will be at a disadvantage.
I believe that China will be willing to sell the J-10C if they look at it this way... you need your ally to be strong enough to defend themselves... and not be knocked senseless immediately when the battle heated up and risk being opened on both fronts. And I do agree that J-10C is going to be very expensive, but if you need to build up your ally's capabilities, China would do good to come up with a plan to enable some J-10C to go to Pakistan... perhaps like an aid to them.
The thing is it doesn't make sense to sell J10C because if that's the case, why bothered to produce JF17? (I know it's to give them experience.)
It was just China didn't want to sell its advanced single engine fighter. And it is not just for tech reasons.
In any case, if PAF want a more heavyweight fighter, it should seek one with two engines. It'll compliment their JF17 nicely.
J-10CE will be a lot more costly for PAF than simply acquisition and equipment costs. PAF does not support the WS-10 engine and how many units of J-10CE will be required before it makes sense to develop the supporting crew, tools, parts, equipment, and infrastructure?
Both PAF and China would likely prefer working on getting the PAF a foot in the 5th gen door ASAP. India will probably eventually be buying Su-57 in the coming years/decade or F-35/Euro 5.5 gen in the coming decades. They're very confident about AMCA surpassing all but Raptor/Lightning II (lol) and being delivered some time around 2030. Anyway you feel about all that, PAF probably needs to think about 5th gen to counter Rafale and future IAF 5th gen induction instead of playing around with J-10CE.
JF-17 upgrades are a natural thing because IAF does still have a lot of older fighters to counter and numbers are still important. JF-17 is the affordable, domesticated numbers filler and upgrading even older blocks with more affordable AESA radars and better missiles, improve their performance with the most effective return on investment. But these don't necessarily counter the superior IAF numbers and soon to be superior equipment (Rafale full induction and familiarisation). The Indian economy is just so much larger than Pakistan's, an arms race and attrition confrontation isn't going to go Pakistan's way. China's support with financing and weaponry is absolutely critical if Pakistan is going to ensure ant Indian aggression will be responded with enough cost to make them hesitate. This has been how Pakistan have kept the situation and the only sensible way to approach the security problem i.e. you can't outspend the Indians lest Pakistan go broke from overspending on arms.
So J-10CE being considered in this context doesn't make sense. It doesn't add considerable capability improvements over Rafale if any at all and it's going to be unduly expensive for either Pakistan or China (whoever foots some or most of the bill). That effort, money, and time could be better spent developing and fielding a convincingly superior fighter into PAF which "needs" to be done sooner rather than later. Or clever diplomacy to de-escalate conflict with India but quite unlikely with the Nazi wannabes RSS and BJP in power (they even have their own Seig Heil solute gesture
).
Both PAF and China would likely prefer working on getting the PAF a foot in the 5th gen door ASAP. India will probably eventually be buying Su-57 in the coming years/decade or F-35/Euro 5.5 gen in the coming decades. They're very confident about AMCA surpassing all but Raptor/Lightning II (lol) and being delivered some time around 2030. Anyway you feel about all that, PAF probably needs to think about 5th gen to counter Rafale and future IAF 5th gen induction instead of playing around with J-10CE.
JF-17 upgrades are a natural thing because IAF does still have a lot of older fighters to counter and numbers are still important. JF-17 is the affordable, domesticated numbers filler and upgrading even older blocks with more affordable AESA radars and better missiles, improve their performance with the most effective return on investment. But these don't necessarily counter the superior IAF numbers and soon to be superior equipment (Rafale full induction and familiarisation). The Indian economy is just so much larger than Pakistan's, an arms race and attrition confrontation isn't going to go Pakistan's way. China's support with financing and weaponry is absolutely critical if Pakistan is going to ensure ant Indian aggression will be responded with enough cost to make them hesitate. This has been how Pakistan have kept the situation and the only sensible way to approach the security problem i.e. you can't outspend the Indians lest Pakistan go broke from overspending on arms.
So J-10CE being considered in this context doesn't make sense. It doesn't add considerable capability improvements over Rafale if any at all and it's going to be unduly expensive for either Pakistan or China (whoever foots some or most of the bill). That effort, money, and time could be better spent developing and fielding a convincingly superior fighter into PAF which "needs" to be done sooner rather than later. Or clever diplomacy to de-escalate conflict with India but quite unlikely with the Nazi wannabes RSS and BJP in power (they even have their own Seig Heil solute gesture
).When it was J-10 to J-10A era, it was a matter of the fighter representing the very best of what China's own military aviation technology levels and exporting is unlikely since it would have been a rather expensive fighter for an unproven first and only Chinese 4th gen fighter with a Russian engine. Too much political headache and an actually unproven track record.
By the time it was J-10B, that was never offered for export because it was a stop-gap where an entire overhaul of the internal avionics was changed into what eventually became the J-10C. The J-10C again was never quite offered for export (until CE recently) because it still used a Russian Al-31 which complicates things for buyers and now it's been using the WS-10, it's still half assed being put up for sale as a alternate version (CE -> J-10C Export) with slight differences to the PLAAF one probably due to some sensitive equipment or potentially revealing things. This doesn't necessarily mean it is downgraded but it's certainly going to be different from PLAAF's J-10C.
One of the main reasons I don't see them really pushing the J-10CE I am guessing is because they can barely fill PLAAF orders fast enough. If it were up to the CCP and PLAAF, they would prefer Chengdu to pump out those fighters at much higher production rates. As decent as the production rate is, it really doesn't even begin to match American fighter production rates. Even the F-35 is built at a greater rate and yeah of course it has more partner nations and a trillion times the investment compared to the J-10 but the rate itself means PLAAF simply isn't getting as many fighters and quickly as they would prefer.
So an export order better be making enough cash to offset the cost of losing out on a higher delivery rate for PLAAF or it could be a significant enough order and commitment to warrant and demand at least one more complete production facility including contractors so as to not disturb PLAAF deliveries. The only nation that would potentially fill that order would be Pakistan since others would either be buying 5th gens, investing in their own industries, or not be able to afford this commitment. So that takes us back to the two main issues with PAF buying J-10CE - opportunity cost and J-10 not being a convincing capability match for Rafale.
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