Ladakh Flash Point

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reservior dogs said:
I think one must be careful to distinguish between the initial promotion of the officers in that era and engineers selection in 2020. The former is by blood and the latter by merit. Similarly, knights were chosen by blood as well. These two don't represent the same things.
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You have to remember that if you scream meritocracy to the Chinese, the Chinese know PRECISELY what it means. In historical China, "meritocracy" turned out to be a regional hegemony in which rich regions in Jiangnan would have ended up dominating the bureaucracy because rich Jiangnan-ese could fully educate their youths in a traditional literary culture. The Ming and Qing Emperors noted this trend and deliberately set quotas to end their domination.

When Brahmins talk merit, they're basically talking about their caste advantages, but disguising it as something else. It's not merely the access to education, but the culture and "habitus" that enables better academic results. For instance, in an adoption study, what was found was that being raised in a nourishing, both physically and mentally, environment resulted in an IQ gain of around 10 points.
 
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Bright Sword

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reservior dogs said:
I think one must be careful to distinguish between the initial promotion of the officers in that era and engineers selection in 2020. The former is by blood and the latter by merit. Similarly, knights were chosen by blood as well. These two don't represent the same things.
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Which is the point I am trying to make. The manipulated 2020 environment today is no different from the 19th century Europeans manipulation either. If the education system is skewed in the World's greatest democracy then the manipulation exists. If a step child is not fed or educated well and then branded as a dullard as compared to preferred sibling it doesn't automatically make the sibling superior in intelligence. Brahmins are no different.
Brahmins have been running India for the last 73 years and have produced a country which is at the bottom of the Global Hunger Index and with the world's largest population of beggars,slum dwellers, lepers, blind and illiterates.
Not a very singular achievement for a group of super achievers.
I may add here that due to inherent flaws in the Indian social fabric any other caste wouldn't have done any better, but then they don't claim to be "twice born".
 
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reservior dogs

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Bright Sword said:
It's not the caste system as such because "affirmative action" is supposed to mitigate the effects. It is manipulation of system. Any caste, any person given the right training and opportunities will perform.
Going back to history:
It was assumed that caucasians made the best pilots and persons of African descent or those generally termed as "Orientals" couldn't fly planes and would never make good fighter pilots.
In World War 1 90% pilots were Caucasian. There were pilots from India and maybe a few from French Algeria. World War 2 busted this myth when Japanese and Chinese pilots took on the best. The USA had the segregated Red Tails African American pilots who shot down German jet fighters flying piston engined P-51 fighter planes. The Korean and Vietnam wars showed Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese pilots flying combat sorties and shooting down "caucasian " adversaries. It was assumed South Asians didn't fly planes properly till a PAF pilot shot down an IDF Mirage III with a Syrian Mig 21.
Brahmins are humans like anyone else. Given good education training and opportunities most persons of average intelligence will perform. I had an interesting conversation with a female colleague in China who held both an engineering and business management degree. She was the first person in the family to ever go to a university. Her parents were farm laborers. Her grand parents had both died in the Japanese occupation, Her parents had been raised by relatives as orphans working for their living on farms. Does this happen in India?
Not in the same way. The Chinese school system ensured that she got a good education that matched the standards required for the University. The standards of the University were not lowered for her admission and the firm where she worked did not hire her because she was "disadvantaged " but because she met the requirements. Of course she suffered NO discrimination in her education and her teachers at school did not downgrade her examinations assessment because they could tell from her name what "caste " she belonged to.
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My wife's grandpa did not finish high school but founded multiple companies in Hong Kong, so I know a person's abilities can transcend lack of educational opportunities. In science, we need to be careful in keeping the experiments in the same condition and remove the impact of different variables. The examples you provided were all due to lack of opportunities, which was a problem in the past for all non-Western countries. The Brahmins and the other upper castes should see similar opportunities in 2020 but have different outcomes. I am open to hear what other obstacles could account for the difference in outcome but just don't see it from where I stand.
 
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Bright Sword

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reservior dogs said:
Can you elaborate on what caste advantage the Brahmins have over the other upper castes in 2020? Do they get better food? better school simply due to their caste?
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All of the above and more. For example on food. If a person dies, one must feed certain number of Brahmins ( forty ? Not sure of the numbers).
 
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berserk said:
Very funny discussion lol.
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I mean this is a gross improvement, no? We've gone from plain Indophobia to anti-Brahmin and anti-Brahmanical (caste system for Chinese readers) sentiment. Since anti-Brahmanism is enshrined in the Indian constitution, we've moved from endless "India vs China" bitching contests to criticisms that Indian posters (barring Brahmins denying their caste privileges) can accept.

From the name, are you some kind of Kshatriya? A Rajput? A Jat? Perhaps you're not Hindu and a Sikh?
 
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reservior dogs

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Bright Sword said:
All of the above and more. For example on food. If a person dies, one must feed certain number of Brahmins ( forty ? Not sure of the numbers).
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Thanks for that information. What other advantages do you see? BTW, is this from all castes? It is difficult for me to see Dalits feeding Brahmins due to the idea of purity and contamination by touch.
 
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Bright Sword

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My wife's grandpa did not finish high school but founded multiple companies in Hong Kong, so I know a person's abilities can transcend lack of educational opportunities.
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We are again talking of exceptions.
India's current prime minister's chief expertise is brewing tea and he believes radar systems do not work in rain and clouds. His background has nothing to do with his "success " in
making India into a super power successfully rivaling China
In science, we need to be careful in keeping the experiments in the same condition and remove the impact of different variables.
The examples you provided were all due to lack of opportunities, which was a problem in the past for all non-Western countries.
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So going by your variable did the "lack of opportunities " naturally exist or were they deliberately denied to a section of the population for 2,500 years?
The Brahmins and the other upper castes should see similar opportunities in 2020 but have different outcomes.
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In my previous posts I have already explained the manipulation of the system in 2020 and how the opportunities are not similar
I am open to hear what other obstacles could account for the difference in outcome but just don't see it from where I stand.
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Apologies. I have already listed how the educational system is manipulated, and how a caste name can determine how a teacher grades the student in high school,
If you are convinced Brahmins are super-achievers then I respect your opinion.
I believe the moderators have been very patient and I have nothing more to add.
 
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