Ladakh Flash Point

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escobar

Brigadier
The QUAD is entirely about India. America is trying to achieve a number of strategic objectives with that.

Firstly, America is just using the same playbook as it did during Hillary and Obama’s time in the SCS - overtly support the territorial claims of India, with behind-closed-doors promises of support to encourage India to press their claim to exasperate tensions.

The goal is to either provoke a shooting war, or at a minimum to massively damage Sino-Indian relations to make India much more receptive to American advances for formal military alliances against China.

The aim is to, in the immediate term, divert Chinese attention and resources away from the East to weaken Chinese force disposition and relieve some of the pressure on the likes of Japan and Taiwan, who’s air forces are being run ragged by the need to scramble to ‘intercept’ massive increased PLAAF air activity. With the hope of weakening Chinese Eastern force concentrations enough to make a military strike less suicidal for US and allied forces.

In the medium term, America is looking to try to open up a new front for China in the East by either using Indian forces, or basing American forces on Indian territory to pose a threat to China’s BRI, thereby elevating India in China’s threat assessment from irrelevant annoyance to credible threat.

BRI is China’s next grand project, and if successful, has the potential to render US maritime dominance irrelevant as per Mackinder’s Heartland theory. Which could isolate America and hasten its decline by promoting Asia-Europe trade and co-operation.

The further BRI extends from China, the more branches it will develop, and thus the harder it will be for America to try to counter and contain. Especially given geopolitical realities. As such trying to cut it off at source would be most effective in countering it, which can realistically only be done via India.

The long term ultimate goal for America would be to provoke a clash of civilisations between India and China, thereby locking China in a massive and prolonged war effort, which could drain Chinese resources and blood for a generation like Afghanistan has done to America.

I think Chinese strategists see the danger, which is a key reason as to why China has, and is continuing to be so restrained in the face of non-stop Indian provocations.

Luckily, it looks like China has been able to effectively deter the Indian leadership with its show of strength. All the noise we are hearing now from India is just face-saving shittalk, much like how little thugs would shittalk as they back away from a fight to try to not look like a coward to their buddies.
Same playbook as with Russia. Now B-52 fly patrol along edge of russian controlled territory in Ukraine. Could also happen with India.
But we give US too much credit. US benefit from the flaws in China India relation but the flaws were already there. US did not create them.
 

Sleepyjam

Junior Member
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Doing a jest there


Trump? This is not about trump
Too much fake news propaganda all around no need for additional contribution. Trump is the one calling the shots now, everyone including your historical experiences has to obey him.
 

hullopilllw

Junior Member
Registered Member
As Quad assembled the former colonists (US,Australia and Japan) and the good old colony (India) in Tokyo, the western and Indian media went into overdrive against China. India media was actually reminding the foreign minsters gathered in Tokyo to make it a proper military alliance.We will be conducting an analysis of Quad meeting and how does it impact Ladakh flash point,suggestions are welcome..bottom line, Quad is becoming an Asian NATO and Eurasian brotherhood is under threat

Iran will say goodbye to India and the Chabahar Port will probably be linked up with Gwadar. China and Russia will lock India out of the Eurasian trade route as a price for joining a US military alliance.

I am not sure if India's current state of development confer her the capacity to play such high stake geopolitical bet.
 

jimmyjames30x30

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I kinda agree that the Quad is a scam job. Its not going to protect India one bit. If India starts a foolish war with China over Ladakh. Would the other 3 of the Quad wanna risk WW3 with China? Anything they can think of doing on China on India's behalf will be too much a price to pay in terms of lives and economy.

The Quad as I see it is a manipulation to get India to be the useful idiot to fight it out with China. The US, Japan, and Australia can 'cheerlead' India, while laughing from behind at its stupidity to doing them a favour to hurt China, but at the same time killing its own future.

If the Quad's plan (or whatever other containment strategy) is going to work, it will ONLY work if it is a threat to China's strategic vulnerabilities. What is strategic vulnerabilities for huge and powerful countries like China? Well, it's usually something systematic and on the civilizational level.

Containment strategy in the Cold War worked for USSR, only because the USSR's dogmatic communistic ideology prevent them from taking advantage of market-economy oriented global trade.
The Soviets themselves isolates themselves from a global trade system. This is why containment strategy works, because in this matter, the USSR and the USA both "agree" upon isolating the USSR. This renders USSR a systematic vulnerability in their inability to build a booming and more robust civilian industrial bases to vastly increase the living standard of the Soviet people, compare to the West. And the containment strategy of Cold War only adds oil to fire.

In China's case, it is already proven that economic containment strategy is NOT going to work. Today is not the early 50s and 60s., no leader in China today and in the foreseeable future will even think about self-isolation, nor could they be isolated. Globalism is already here, and China is already in it, you simply can not shut her out. So economics and trade is NOT China's vulnerability.

In my opinion, it should be apparent that land warfare of scale is also NOT China's vulnerability. Because China is a huge continental power, she will always have a hugely powerful army even if they are doing nothing (just sitting around and training) as a result of lacking a real opponent. Even India is not really the appropriate opponent for PLAGF. PLAGF is theoretically most suited to fight the army of the USSR (had she still existed). But sadly, USSR is gone forever. Today's Russia could be 4 times stronger, and still not be as threatening to China as the USSR, because Russian Federation do NOT contain Central Asia.

To me, the high profile existence of the Quad is almost unreal because it is like China's wildest wet dream. It basically gave the PLAGF an excuse to make fighting India an effective way of countering the maritime containment strategy of the US. Those two thing were unrelated, until the US put them together in a nice little package called the Quad. Now the PLAGF will no longer be an overly energetic pit bull with nothing to bite on, in Chinese, I would say "终于有用武之地了,不用再‘将军老死、战马肥死'了" to summarize this situation. China's ultimate goal is to break the cage which the Anglo-American Western world order had put upon the world through the Core-periphery system of global division of labor. This is China's cause, and it makes fighting a non-allied India contrary to the cause. If India is to break her non-allied stance and join the US-led West in Asia, it will only be a juicy opportunity for China to start a land war with India for the aforementioned cause. The opposite is true for the Cold War against USSR, because for USSR's case, all those industrial capacity given to producing weapons were a waste of money, because the USA was fighting and winning the economic war that eventually made the USSR collapsed. USSR's cause should be to preserve and spread communist/socialist way of life, which could only be done if they can demonstrate that USSR's planned economy is booming and prosperous, and produces abundance for the soviet people to consume. This would be demonstrated by very low cost of living and very high income, thus making a more competitive standard of living compare to the west. The soviet military should ONLY be used as a safe guard to protect such way of life against an enemy that wants to destroy it by force.

As for your concern about the US starting WW3. it actually doesn't matter. The US will only start WW3 if they calculated that it is in their benefit to start WW3. That's NOT the case today, because the USA has much more to lose than China, in at least the next 30 years. And if it is the case that the USA calculated that WW3 is their best bet, they still will NOT opt for a Quad. Because Quad is an emotionally reassuring mechanism. Given the Indians the promise of a Quad, only makes them feel more secure and reassured. This will make the Indians less likely to go all out with everything they have, especially when the war hasn't really started yet. The more options the Indians have, they more likely they will pick the option with the least cost. This is NOT how you drag China into the quagmire of war via India. This is creating a perfect opportunity for China to take the Indians by surprise and get a swift victory. In Chinese we call this "懈怠对手", making them less alerted and more slack, making them over-confident.

In Sun Tzu's Art of War, there is that famous theory of ”置之于死地而后生“, putting your men in a dire situation with no route of escape, and this will activate their latent and innate potentials. You might want to think about this.
 
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jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
Too much fake news propaganda all around no need for additional contribution. Trump is the one calling the shots now, everyone including your historical experiences has to obey him.

Trump is smart. In fact, Trump is too smart for the like of Pompeo. Pompeo is nothing but a dog that follows orders, he doesn't have the capacity of understand Trump's visions.

Trump understands that it is not in USA's long term interest that US's relationship with the rest of the world is effectively that of an Alpha wolf to the rest of the pack. he understands that the US has to be both internal and external to the world system. This is very similar to the Christian idea of the Trinity, in which the Christ is both fully human and fully God. God is external to the world, and a human is internal to the world.

This means that Trump understands that that if the US is ONLY internal to the world system, she will eventually be subject to the laws of history: Rise and Fall of Empires, (what we call "Dynastic Circle" in China). However, if the US become entirely external to the world, it will eventually be like Maya, Inca and Aztec (or like 19th and early 20th century China, Persia, Japan, etc, the old eastern world), locked in their own bubble and succumb to stagnations.

Therefore Trump perceives the US has a need to become more self-reliant, in order to increase her externality to the world, while still able to maintain their ability to intervene in important matters on the Eurasian continent. Trump wants a more divided Eurasian super-continent, yet he understands that major war on the super continent will hurt long term US interests. Therefore we see him reluctant to really start a war, even though the US military are much more aggressive in taunting behavior against Russia and China. This is because Trump do NOT want the US to get involved or get dragged into a major war. If any major war were to break out on the Eurasian supercontinent and the US do not intervene, the outcome will tilt towards the stronger local big powers of the region, and that will work against US interests.

What I think Trump wants, is both to form more alliance with countries on the supercontinent to stabilize the regions, while withdrawn the US from these regions to a more back roll seat roles. In his vision:
- NATO becomes 1 + Many (USA + the others) against Russia
- Quad becomes 1 + 3 (USA + the other 3) against China
- Middle East NATO becomes 1 + Many ( USA + the other including Israel, Jordan, Saudi, etc) against Iran.
so on and so on.
In this model, the USA provides back up, sells weapons, trains people, and provide the most essential high tech support like navigation, datalink, etc. And these allied nations are like dogs that barks at and guarding against bears like Russia, China and Iran, etc.

I think Trump's idea is pretty good, and will eventually lead to a more peaceful world. Because Russia, China, and Iran are not afraid those little dogs, they are concern about a Globalist-Imperialistic USA. Such an empire is also not good for the USA. US money should come back the USA to build her own domestic industries and increasing domestic standard of living, instead of being spent on keeping in the Empire in control via military, and taking more ownership and lordship over other countries' industries via the Wall Street.
 

silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
In China's case, it is already proven that economic containment strategy is NOT going to work. Today is not the early 50s and 60s., no leader in China today and in the foreseeable future will even think about self-isolation, nor could they be isolated. Globalism is already here, and China is already in it, you simply can not shut her out.
The US is certainly trying this, look at the recent 5G and Huawei bans. Whether they are successful and to what extent China can be economically isolated is still to be seen.
 

TD739

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is very hypothetical . What would happen if China put it's military in Myanmar and launch invasion and take over India Andaman and nicobar islands.
 
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