Ladakh Flash Point

Orthan said:

timesofindia article about t-90 vs type 15

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AFAIK, the type 15 may go where the t-90 cant. So, i dont know how the two would fare against each other.

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Is the current Indian doctrine still stuck in the time warp of "tank-on-tank"?
Isn't the primary purpose of light tanks to mop up mechanized infantry?
Why would light tanks be pitted against "heavies" when there are other ways to deal with them such as HJ-12s fired from drones or in a defensive mode, the light tanks would retire behind a screen of anti tank guns ( ZTL-11 ).
China doesn't use A-5s anymore so am not sure what is China's equivalent of the Su-25 or A-10 Warthog but the Z-10 attack helo has anti-armor capabilities.
Even way back in 1940 during the advance into France and Belgium the light German Panzer 2 tanks would avoid taking on the heavy French Char B or Somua tank and when encountering them would retire behind a screen of anti-tank guns following in the rear. They would then call in an air strike from Stuka Ju-87 dive bombers.
Faced with the same problem ( light vs heavy) during the Battle of Kursk the Soviet Union began avoid direct "one on one" standoffs between T-34s and German Tiger tanks. About six T-34s ( or Shermans for that matter) were needed for one Tiger. The Soviets preferred to have their Il-2 Stormovik aircraft support their lighter tanks. Similarly British Cromwell tanks and US Shermans were outclassed by German Panthers but rocket firing Hawker Typhoons evened the odds.

In 1991 in Iraq the USA relied on its A-10 Warthogs to take out Iraqi T-72s though there were rare "tank-on-tank" engagements with US M1 Abrams and T-72s
Who will fight the Battle of Kursk again?

Given the terrain at Ladakh (barren treeless land) I think the Indians should worry more about these than tanks.

siegecrossbow said:

Given the terrain at Ladakh (barren treeless land) I think the Indians should worry more about these than tanks.

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I would be pretty worried if things led to drone strikes. That would be a fairly clear escalation, and it might not be possible to pull the situation back without heavy casualties on either side.

Mr T said:

I would be pretty worried if things led to drone strikes. That would be a fairly clear escalation, and it might not be possible to pull the situation back without heavy casualties on either side.

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Yeah the side without air superiority and with tons of armor standing around at sub optimal climate for operation might take some pretty heavy losses, as already shown in Iraq.

India would do well to stop trying to provoke a conflict if they want to save more lives.

China's PCL-181 will gladly greet the Indian tanks.

Mr T said:

it might not be possible to pull the situation back without heavy casualties on either side.

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Not sure what the term "worried" means.
A noble cause is worth the supreme sacrifice.
A gentle reminder to our history:
15.5 million lives in China were lost from 1927-1949 ...and many more in Korea, and in the decades of struggle to secure our coast line from the renegade imperialist puppets. We suffered colonial and imperialist military intervention, a brutal foreign occupation, and decades of economic sanctions and diplomatic isolation. Yet the sacrifice and labor of our peasants, workers and soldiers ensured we came through these difficult times, to build a mighty nation that today challenges the unipolar hegemony of a neo-imperialist world order as never before.

Many aggressors have underestimated us and failed. A word to the wise is sufficient.

jfy1155 said:

China's PCL-181 will gladly greet the Indian tanks.

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These are probably to be used against static infantry positions saturation attact. These are ballistic weapons, much useful in mountain and hill terrain, no line of sight against the enemy. Aim at an angle. I think the idea is, use a drone to acquire a target, and relay info to those light tanks to automatically adjust aim. I think i read somewhere this tank can be aimed automatically.

I find it odd why Indian army bring so many heavy tanks in a mountain and hill terrain. Heavy tanks are always used in open terrain. In mountain terrain, these tanks can only manuever in narrow valleys, which is a perpect killing field for Anti tank weapons.

On the Chinese side though, I havent seen much ATGMs though deployed in this area. Maybe i missed it. Maybe even more useful if there is a drone version for ATGM.

SimaQian said:

This are probably used against static infantry positions saturation attact. These are ballistic weapons, much useful in mountain and hill terrain, no line of sight against the enemy. Aim at an angle. I think the idea is, use a drone to acquire a target, and relay info to those light tanks to automatically adjust aim. I think i read somewhere this tank can be aimed automatically.

I find it odd why Indian army bring so many heavy tanks in a mountain and hill terrain. Heavy tanks are always used in open terrain. In mountain terrain, these tanks can only manuever in narrow valleys, which is a perpect killing field for Anti tank weapons.

On the Chinese side though, I havent seen much ATGMs though deployed in this area. Maybe i missed it. Maybe even more useful if there is a drone version for ATGM.

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They are doing it for show rather than for strategic purposes.

jfy1155 said:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312267736790097920

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I recommend the Chinese build a memorial to all the damaged spiked clubs and sore fists incurred after a night's swinging at Galwan.

siegecrossbow said:

That said I find it telling that he didn’t mention whether the T-90s and T-72s work well at high altitudes. He mentioned the cold, yes, but low oxygen at high altitude seems a glaring omission.

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In their rush to brag and boast, the Indians made the mistake of showing footage of their tanks operating at altitude. The tank was moving in a straight line at a snail's pace yet still gave off more black smoke than Kuznetsov at its worst.

Figaro said:

I recommend the Chinese build a memorial to all the damaged spiked clubs and sore fists incurred after a night's swinging at Galwan.

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It's no laughing matter, some of those soldiers will have tennis elbow for the rest of their lives from swinging those bat into Indians' skulls.