Ladakh Flash Point

Status
Not open for further replies.

Figaro

Senior Member
Registered Member
well i think over the long run, say 50 years, you will see 3 countries at the top in terms of economic and military power: China, US and India. Or, with the most pessimistic view of India, they will have a huge population that can be armed with imported weapon. So i would not take that country so lightly in a future potential global conflict.
As opposed to Japan - that is a country, if you really try hard enough, can be uprooted altogether, like the US did in ww2, but i dont think any power could do the same to India. So i think your analogy is not appropriate.
I think a proper historical example, would be Germany vs France in 1870s, where i think Bismark made the mistake of taking alsace-lorraine, which makes France the mortal enemy for the next 70 years to come. Well you could argue military performance of France during that period, but you cannot deny alsace-lorraine poisoned the relationship to the root, and it limited Germans strategic option all those years.
And yet France was subsequently defeated in the next couple conflicts ... without massive English and eventually American support France probably would've fallen to Germany in World War I too. That said, I doubt the Galwan valley or even Aksai Chin is to India as Alsace was to France ... Aksai Chin is pretty remote and definitely not rich in economics or culture. So I don't think this analogy holds ...
 

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
Right now info on what happened is really scarce. At least in the clashes few days ago, it would seem there aren't any PLA casualties, since in general social media tends to lit up whenever a soldier dies in the line of duty.

Given the captured Indian forces and number of casualties... Its really doubtful this was some sort of melee like Indian media claims, that seems like a lie to deeascalate, so China might not want to challenge it either.

It sounds like an Indian force pressed too far and maybe mistook an Army position for something else.
 

caohailiang

Junior Member
Registered Member
India has already slipped into lap of the West but it has lost all of its neighbors in South Asia
i expect Indian to be way smarter than that. They may overestimate their military might, but i dont think they will be foolish to be used as the pawn of the west. They will use their position to get something in return, but if the west really hope the Indian are gona fight for them, they are seriously mistaken.
but that is of course based on China does not do something irrational to push India to the other side.

edit: maybe i shouldn't say the west, it should be the US only. the European will keep their options open till the very end.
 
Last edited:

plawolf

Lieutenant General
At this point, I think we can piece together a fairly accurate broad picture of what went down.

The Indians advanced on the Chinese position; a fight ensued, during which the Indian CO and two soldiers were killed outright, and the rest of the Indian command staff were captured alongside a significant, or even the majority of the Indian force. What was left of the Indian force fled, apparently through very ill advised route(s), which appears to be what actually caused the vast majority of the Indian fatalities, either through falls/jumps from cliffs, and/or as a result of exposure from jumping into freezing water or just getting lost/stuck in the wilds overnight.

The reason the initial report was off 3 dead was because that was the body count the PLA took at the end of the fighting, which they then communicated to the Indian side.

It wasn’t until what was left of the Indian force that originally fled made it back to base/were found, that the rest of the fatalities were discovered.

The silence from the Indian government side would make a lot more sense if it was out of shame and embarrassment that they lost so many men fleeing from a fight rather than actually fighting it. And they are desperate to sweep this whole thing under the rug before the truth comes out. It’s only the Indian media who are making waves right now while the Indian government has been surprising quiet and unforthcoming with details.

The reason the Chinese released Indian prisons in batches was probably more to do with the degree of their injuries rather than any political bargaining or consideration. The uninjured and lightly injured Indian troops were released pretty much immediately, while the rest were released once they were stabilised by Chinese medics and deemed to no longer be in a life threatening situation.

The heavy PLA helicopter sortie rate the Indians observed were medivac runs, but many (if not most) would have been for the benefit of the most seriously hurt captured Indians rather than being any indication of how many casualties the PLA might have suffered.

PLA fatalities cannot be ruled out at this point, especially during the initial stage of the fight, when the Indians likely outnumbered the PLA forward unit, and could be a reason for why this fight went lethal while all previous ones did not; but it is also possible that if the account of the event posted on Weibo by the claimed construction worker is correct, the Indian military attack on Chinese civilians is the trigger for the deadly response and the PLA suffered no fatalities.

But if my assessment is correct and only 3 Indians died as a direct and immediate result of the fight, that would pretty much be the ballpark top end of how many fatalities the PLA could have feasibly suffered. But balance of probabilities would suggest fewer if not no deaths on the PLA side, since in the overwhelmingly majority of cases, it is the side that looses and/or is outnumbered who takes the most losses when weapons are at the same level.

Since all the claims are of the Indians being outnumbered and being ‘unarmed’ (which I consider to be Indian fake news, in the previously released Indian video of the aftermath of their ambush on the Chinese officer, it is clear they carry clubs and shields as standard for patrol, so it’s ridiculous to suggest they purposefully went out to confront the PLA and didn’t bring their melee weapons), they would have had comparable or inferior weapons to the PLA. What more, the PLA are not idiots, so would not have set up in a random or bad position, they would have chosen the spot that offers them the most geographical advantage to set up, so the Indians would have had even the terrain itself against them in the fight.

Reality isn’t Bollywood, when you are outnumbered, fighting with inferior weapons, and fighting against the terrain itself, you simply do not inflict more casualties than you take.
 

Biscuits

Colonel
Registered Member
That casualties could have resulted from fleeing seems to make sense.

However I doubt a melee fight would have resulted in deaths, if the border patrol had non lethal weapons they wouldn't use them to beat incapacitated indians to death, that would be a serious violation of military law. If deaths happened, its either from bullets, shells or bayonets. And I really don't think the Army decided a bayonet charge would be the best way to repel an Indian incursion.
 

rott

New Member
Registered Member
They are getting ready. I don't like the situation getting out of control There is no winner in war and more attention should be devoted to improve living standard of their people for both India and China I hope cool head will prevail on both side

Chinese soldiers have conducted a live fire drill at an altitude of 4,700 meters in southwest China. Different units of soldiers were organized into a joint battle group to test their ability to deal with battlefield emergencies on a plateau.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Cutting India to size is the only option here. They have grand plans to ally with USA, Australia, etc., to contain China. If you have read their policies they are simply trying to contain China by any means.
 

duskseeker

Junior Member
Registered Member
Cutting India to size is the only option here. They have grand plans to ally with USA, Australia, etc., to contain China. If you have read their policies they are simply trying to contain China by any means.
exactly, I'm tired of Beijing's win/win strategy. Also I think they should at least let the population vent some anger. If this was some NATO backed country they would be calling reinforcements from all sides and shouting from the highest mountains. Instead we are told to be quiet and everything will be ok. Hopefully this is temporary and only at the surface.
 

Canton_pop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Cutting India to size is the only option here. They have grand plans to ally with USA, Australia, etc., to contain China. If you have read their policies they are simply trying to contain China by any means.


Australia as one of the first to close border with China and fatality count was one of the least in the world is the one who bark the loudest. With its engine of growth basically tie in to China's economy growth, antagonist with other nation to bring China down.
Make no bloody sense !! Only savage animal bite the hand who feed it?
 

Canton_pop

Junior Member
Registered Member
exactly, I'm tired of Beijing's win/win strategy. Also I think they should at least let the population vent some anger. If this was some NATO backed country they would be calling reinforcements from all sides and shouting from the highest mountains. Instead we are told to be quiet and everything will be ok. Hopefully this is temporary and only at the surface.


The Wests always want China to adopt democracy, but showing a bad example by constant infighting between left and right and constant government change, a system that ensures privileged few interest were served with campaign donations ( it's outright corruption if you ask me), liberalization of all type of rights even animal rights when billions in world are still living worst than a pet animal (which eat organic food and enjoy grooming and manicure) , now looking at how established democratic in Europe and America and even the biggest democracies in the world: India and Indonesia failed miserably in pandemic containment, for the first time even the Chinese citizens have second thought on democracy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top